Death of muzzleloading

[Flintlock]

I'll throw some fuel on the fire, did the introduction of inline rifles, pellets, sabots, etc. take away the use of traditional muzzleloaders or help bring more shooter to the traditional side of muzzleloading ?

I kind of thought that some of those who wanted to try the new muzzleloading season here in Mn. that were going to go old school were swept away by the promise of easy loading and extended range. Just my opinion.

 

[Hawk54]

I too remember in the late 60's early 70's of Trapdoor Springfields, 86 Winchesters and a few muzzleloaders in the woods, don't think I got my own muzzleloading rifle till 76 I think. Those early years of hunting made memories that are some of the best yet.

I got my first muzzle loader in 77. When I was a kid I remember going into a bar called the Chanteclear. On the wall above the pinball machine was a complete original 1863 Springfield musket. My grandfather said it had been there since he could remember. The stock was black from all the cigarette smoke.

 

[Hawk54]

I kind of thought that some of those who wanted to try the new muzzleloading season here in Mn. that were going to go old school were swept away by the promise of easy loading and extended range. Just my opinion.

I think you are right. When they started allowing scopes for everyone a few years ago I know guys who jumped to inlines. But then some of them did it because they had trouble with open sights in poor light.

 

[SDSmlf]

I too remember in the late 60's early 70's of Trapdoor Springfields, 86 Winchesters and a few muzzleloaders in the woods, don't think I got my own muzzleloading rifle till 76 I think. Those early years of hunting made memories that are some of the best yet.

Your profile implies you are 57, likely born in 1965. Or is your profile incorrect?

 

[morehops52]

I'll throw some fuel on the fire, did the introduction of inline rifles, pellets, sabots, ec. take away the use of traditional muzzleloaders or help bring more shooter to the traditional side of muzzleloading ?

If you use fishing as an example, a lot of folks start out with the fastest grahite spinning rod with a 15 bearing fast retieve reel and think that's the pinnicle of fishing. A lot of those turn to fly fishing once they see the difference and satisfaction. Same for ML'ing I would think. Yes, and I haven't forgotten that some of you started out with a Snoopy rod.

 

[Flintlock]

I think you are right. When they started allowing scopes for everyone a few years ago I know guys who jumped to inlines. But then some of them did it because they had trouble with open sights in poor light.

Early morning and late afternoon I'm about done, hard to see the front sights on my longrifles, might have to try some other sights on one of my plains type rifles I guess someday.

 

[Flintlock]

Your profile implies you are 57, likely born in 1965. Or is your profile incorrect?

1964 but was fascinated as a child with what was brought out for deer season, I started deer hunting by myself in 74.

 

[Hawk54]

Early morning and late afternoon I'm about done, hard to see the front sights on my longrifles, might have to try some other sights on one of my plains type rifles I guess someday.

I have a friend who hunted for years with an original trapdoor 45/70. Late one cloudy overcast afternoon he had an eight pointer come out about 50 yards from him. John said he could not see the front sight on the rifle at all. Had to let the deer walk.

 

[Colonial Boy]

I returned home in late 1954 and the nexr year, at Easter, joined the First Australian Muzzle Loading Gun and Rifle Association (herein after FAMLG&RA); yes, that was really their name.air.
The leading light was Lyn Caldwell a New Zealander who had made the first rifle completely made in NZ.
It was a flintlock of .38 caliber and superbly accurate. He made it about 1941.
There were people still using ml guns before WWII, so I’d guess they never entirely went out of use.

 

[sheriff john]

Turner Kirkland (Dixie Gunworks) and Val Forget (Navy Arms) really got the ball rolling in my era (60's) with quality ML's availability, parts, and promotion of the sport. There was a lot of junk during that time, too.

Most major gun companies saw the market, upped the quality and put their names in, which, coupled with national professional advertising brought more mainstream gun guys to get involved with black powder. Colt started making "second generation" cartridge revolvers and "Commemoratives" became the new status symbol. Fun times.

Times change. People's interests change. Truly think the entertainment industry both fuels interest in historic stuff and also dampens interest. "Westerns" brought six-shooters and lever actions. "Davy Crocket" was good for Kentucky Rifles "Dirty Harry" demand for the .44 Magnum. etcl. etc. Today, it seems to be all "tactical" black plastic, etc.

Just glad to have been alive through the whole thing. In the words of Elmer Keith, "Hell, I was there."

 

[gunnyr]

For me the flowering of muzzle loading started, 1970 ,while I was in Ammo school class 1170 at Quantico Va, Myself and
2 other students bought a muzzle loading pistol out of a magazine. I talked to the schools !st Sgt and he let us use
the back room of the schools office, only on off duty hours. We finished the kit, myself and one of the other students
gave it to the youngest student (17 yrs old , his mother had to sign to let him join the Marine Corps. ) The !st Sgt
bought powder , 45 cal balls and primers. Between us builders the 1st Sgt , Commanding Officer , the XO , school
Gunnery Sgt and the instructor's we shot everything up a good time was had by all that day. So for me it all started
in 1970 and haven't looked back. But I do wonder what ever happened to that pistol.
gunny

 

[necchi]

So at the advent of the cartridge gun did the use of muzzleloaders die out only to be re-invented in the 1970's

It ain't about the gun as CF or ML,, your missing a point and generalizing a function of mechanics.
It's about "Sport".
What skill does it take?
What is the Challenge made or accomplished with either CF or ML? And how does an individual measure his own accomplishments to his satisfaction?
I load and shoot both,,
You "presume" muzzleloaders died out,, but by what measurement? Your lack of knowledge of them as a youth?

But the "surge" was the Bi-centenial of the country,, you shoulda been there as an adult.

 

[Coinneach]

So at the advent of the cartridge gun did the use of muzzleloaders die out only to be re-invented in the 1970's or did some continue to hunt and shoot these relics. Many here are on the assumption that folk just ceased to use them.

"Cartridges" ?

 

[Coinneach]

They never went away. Belgium would make ML trade guns for African trade up through the Second World War, then after the war up till the 1970s.
Sturgis gun company was a maker also of ML also for Africa
Up until the Second World War ML southern mountain rifles were popular and new made throughout Appalachia
The NMLRA started in the 1930s. And Dixie Gunworks was set up to provide old parts for repairing and making shootable old guns. Then as the centennial of the WBTS approached Kirkland turned to Italy to produce guns to celebrate the centennial. Modern living history really kicked off then

Thank you sir, even here in Australia BP Muzzle loaders continued in use albeit in limited numbers and in isolated community groups throughout the intervening eras until today.

In Australia there was no shortage of original Flintlocks and Percussion Muzzle loaders right up until the 1990's, Gun shows were awash with reasonably priced originals and parts, Ball moulds etc in those days; and it was only older guys who were interested until others realised how collectable the old Guns really were.

The reproduction Muzzle loaders really got a hold here in the late 1960's early 70's with GRRW and later Master Craftsman Alan Vaisham (took over GRRW) making authentic copies on both Flintlock and Percussion lock ML's. Sadly Alan retired but there's still a couple of guys trying to keep the tradition alive, importing Stocks, Barrels and parts whenever possible; but thats coming to an end.

Our major problem in Australia now, is less and less American ML builders, Kit and Parts suppliers are willing to export to Australia, even though its still quite legal to do so. As time goes on we're going to be strangled by lack of availability if it continues.

 

[Daveboone]

I'll throw some fuel on the fire, did the introduction of inline rifles, pellets, sabots, etc. take away the use of traditional muzzleloaders or help bring more shooter to the traditional side of muzzleloading ?

Here in NY, there was a separate ML season with an extra deer allowed. In the southern zone shotguns were the norm and required by law, but ML were allowed. Many of us went to ML due to the greater accuracy potential...originally it was traditional, but it wasnt long before the law allowed most everything.

 

[dave951]

I'll throw some fuel on the fire, did the introduction of inline rifles, pellets, sabots, etc. take away the use of traditional muzzleloaders or help bring more shooter to the traditional side of muzzleloading ?

Having witnessed the "resurgence" of traditional muzzleloading through the 1960-70s, and the start of a separate "primitive weapons" season for hunting, my observation on the inline stuff is they are the result of somebody doing some market research. Many hunters wanted to take advantage of the primitive weapons but didn't like to shoot a traditional muzzleloader or a traditional bow. So the rules got "interpreted" and the inventive got going and now we have the inline and the compound bow. Fast forward, at least in my state, and there is a waning of the number of hunters that go to the woods while there is an increase in the black rifle and the result is a problem with the numbers of big game harvested each year. So the state has loosened the rules on primitive weapons and now any black powder gun that doesn't use fixed ammunition, meaning no modern style cartridges, is not legal. Examples are Sharps, Smith, Maynard, Starr, etc that use cartridges but still require a percussion cap. Archery has opened up to crossbows.

I've witnessed the decline of muzzleloading again through the 90s and that's just one of the reasons I've become a muzzleloading instructor working with kids.

 

[Jason60chev]

So at the advent of the cartridge gun did the use of muzzleloaders die out only to be re-invented in the 1970's or did some continue to hunt and shoot these relics. Many here are on the assumption that folk just ceased to use them.

Jed Clampett used a muzzle loader!

 

[Jason60chev]

So at the advent of the cartridge gun did the use of muzzleloaders die out only to be re-invented in the 1970's or did some continue to hunt and shoot these relics. Many here are on the assumption that folk just ceased to use them.

If the movie Sgt York has any accuracy, he and his mountain friends continued to use muzzle loaders.

 

[SamTex1949]

Might I suggest to the OP that they get a copy of this book to better answer his question :

The muzzle-loading rifle;: Then and now, 1942
by Walter Matson Cline

 

[N.Y. Yankee]

The thing is, Muzzleloaders worked well in the 18th century, and in the 19th century. They continued to work well after that. It's not like everyone was just given a free cartridge gun or else maybe they would have just dropped the BP guns. When they took the crossbow high tech 20 years ago and pushed for legalizing them in archery season, lots of people said it was the death knell for compounds because it was easier. Many hunters dont have the money to just go out and buy a crossbow when they already have a perfectly good compound or maybe just dont want one. I think it could have been the same way with muzzleloaders.