Deciding on my 1st muzzleloader

[old dog]

It's going to be a SxS. One is none, two is one, right? Anyway, that's my excuse.

My choices are down to 20 inch 12 GA. Coach Gun, 27 inch 20 GA. or 11 inch 20 Ga. Baker Cavalry.

Most of it's use will be putting holes in paper, maybe a little small game hunting. Light and compact has considerable appeal but here's my question:

What will pattern better 20 inch 12GA. or 11 inch 20Ga.?

 

[Kansas Jake]

Longer barrel will almost always pattern better unless you are shooting a ball or shooting shot at 10 feet. Obviously there are reasonable lengths for a barrel before it becomes too long and awkward.

 

[old dog]

Longer barrel will almost always pattern better unless you are shooting a ball or shooting shot at 10 feet. Obviously there are reasonable lengths for a barrel before it becomes too long and awkward.

Maybe I'm mistaken but, other things being equal, with a 12 GA. and 20 GA. with the same length barrel, won't the 20 GA. pattern better?

 

[Elgatodeacero]

The 12 gauge will have a much denser pattern as it throws more shot than an equivalent 20 gauge load.

Get the 20 or 27 inch barrels, both will be plenty short and handy since there is no action behind the barrels, and they will both generate useful velocity. Either a 12 or 20 gauge will be good, if shooting quail or grouse is on your agenda then the 27 inch barrels will swing much better for shooting a flying target.

The 11 inch barrel 20 gauge would be the least useful and most impractical, and the very short barrels will have relatively low velocity and lots of flash from unburnt powder.

 

[Eterry]

The larger bore has a shorter Shot String, which makes it a better gun for hunting and breaking clays.

I heard of a guy using a Baker who got his fingers too close to the muzzles and got a nasty powder burn on his hand... just saying.

IIRC, they were intended to be used one handed while mounted, hence the 11" bbl.

I'm 100% in favor of the larger bore.

Btw, I've seen a few sxs here in classifieds lately. I've bought many times on here, with good luck.

 

[Eterry]

The 12 gauge will have a much denser pattern as it throws more shot than an equivalent 20 gauge load.

Get the 20 or 27 inch barrels, both will be plenty short and handy since there is no action behind the barrels, and they will both generate useful velocity. Either a 12 or 20 gauge will be good, if shooting quail or grouse is on your agenda then the 27 inch barrels will swing much better for shooting a flying target.

The 11 inch barrel 20 gauge would be the least useful and most impractical, and the very short barrels will have relatively low velocity and lots of flash from unburnt powder.

Actually, many Skeet shooters and bird hunter's prefer a shorter barrel, but a larger bore. Skeet was fashioned after bird hunting, with fast side to side movement as a crossing shot. A long barrel, say over 30", can often slow the swing and limit your ratio at the Skeet range.

There is little practical use for the 11" barrel outside its original use. So unless you're outflanking infantry while mounted it's use Is minimal.

At the Trap house or when Turkey hunting the longer barrels are preferable. The birds at trap range are going away, and fast, so less side to side movement is the norm. Also trap is at much longer ranges than Skeet. I've seen many muzzleloading trap shooters using an 8 bore, to shorten the shot string, making it easier to break birds.

Btw, An ounce of shot in a 12 bore will break more birds, bring down more also, than an ounce in a 20 bore, choke being equal. This is due to the shorter shot string, but I don't think it will pattern differently on the board.

 

[old dog]

The larger bore has a shorter Shot String, which makes it a better gun for hunting and breaking clays.

I'm confused. Shot starts spreading as soon as it exits the muzzle. Why doesn't 12 GA. spread faster that 12 GA., it starts out bigger?

 

[Eterry]

I can try to explain it; but this has little to do with spread, but the shot string, which it important to taking birds, both feathered and clay.

The shot is stacked in the barrel, upon firing it makes a line of shot rushing down the barrel and towards the target.

As it heads towards the target , the shorter the string the more pellets reach the target area at the same time.

In a long shot string the reverse is true. The shot string is so long the target passes through a smaller "wall" of shot, and the string of shot continues on past the target as it moves away as well.

A 12 bore has a shorter Shot String than does a 28 bore, an 8 bore shorter than a 12 bore.

If you're not confused I can keep explaining until you are!!

 

[smoothshooter]

The 12 gauge will have a much denser pattern as it throws more shot than an equivalent 20 gauge load.

Get the 20 or 27 inch barrels, both will be plenty short and handy since there is no action behind the barrels, and they will both generate useful velocity. Either a 12 or 20 gauge will be good, if shooting quail or grouse is on your agenda then the 27 inch barrels will swing much better for shooting a flying target.

The 11 inch barrel 20 gauge would be the least useful and most impractical, and the very short barrels will have relatively low velocity and lots of flash from unburnt powder.

The longer barrels are easier to use because you can put the butt on the ground, clamp the gun between your knees, and use both hands to load.
Just make sure the barrel(s) are pointing away from your upper body and head when loading.

 

[old dog]

I can try to explain it; but this has little to do with spread, but the shot string, which it important to taking birds, both feathered and clay.

The shot is stacked in the barrel, upon firing it makes a line of shot rushing down the barrel and towards the target.

As it heads towards the target , the shorter the string the more pellets reach the target area at the same time.

In a long shot string the reverse is true. The shot string is so long the target passes through a smaller "wall" of shot, and the string of shot continues on past the target as it moves away as well.

A 12 bore has a shorter Shot String than does a 28 bore, an 8 bore shorter than a 12 bore.

If you're not confused I can keep explaining until you are!!

Please do, what confuses me is that the pellets exiting from a larger diameter hole would seem to spread out faster.

 

[old dog]

I see your point now about the string length and a moving target like a bird or clay.

What about stationary targets?

 

[Eterry]

At a stationary target; for example a pattern board or Turkey hunting, the shot string has less of an effect, because the target isn't moving. That's where choke comes into play. Choke holds the pattern together which allows for longer shots and tighter patterns. It does this by slightly squeezing the shot column, causing it to spread out slower as it travels downrange.

This is how I've read it, and had it explained to me. I'm sure there are other points of view.

I bought a SXS 20 bore on this site, with 28" bbls. It's cylinder bore, but I've taken several birds with it, and one cottontail.

IMHO, of those you've mentioned, the 20 bore with 27" bbls would be best choice unless you're shooting skeet or quail with the 12 bore 20".

 

[Walkabout]

I have the Baker shotgun and I would not recommend it as a first muzzleloader. Maybe I'm more dense than most, but I found the single trigger and hammer sequence took some getting used to. I'd can definitely recommend the Pedersoli 20, however. Mine is a beautiful piece and a pleasure to handle and shoot. It's my best quality firearm and I consider it a modern classic.

 

[Ballshooter]

Have you considered a custom trade gun? If so contact Rob Miller here he is a master trade gun builder!