Defarbing a Brown bess

[flash pan blue]

I recently aquired a Pedersoli Brown Bess, and really love it. However every time i look at the barrel i see those unwanted stampings, FOR BLACK POWDER ONLY, and MADE IN ITALY. have any of you guys had luck removing the markings , or are they in too deep. What would be the best way to go about this without screwing it up?

 

I filed them out and used plumbers tape to sand it back to a fine finish. Never know they were there. :thumbsup:

 

[Rebel]

You should be able to draw file them out, and then use some emeory cloth or black wet dry sandpaper to polish the barrel back out again.

 

[musketman]

I recently aquired a Pedersoli Brown Bess, and really love it. However every time i look at the barrel i see those unwanted stampings, FOR BLACK POWDER ONLY, and MADE IN ITALY. have any of you guys had luck removing the markings , or are they in too deep. What would be the best way to go about this without screwing it up?

If you don't want to remove them with a file, perhaps you could fill them in with metal and them smooth the area out... :hmm:

 

[thomas]

You do not have to use a file. I got this off of another forum years ago. It was a tip from Steve Bookout and it works very well, as I have done this 5 or 6 times and it has worked perfectly every time.

Use a small punch or nail set to close up the stamping of the letters on barrels (so long as the letters are not super wide). Use the punch or nail set on the side of the lettering and with a small hammer tap the punch toward the opening of the letter. You just keep doing this until the letter is closed up. I then use a little larger punch to kind of even things out. Then I hit it with a scotch brite pad and/or some sandpaper. If you take your time and use a little care, it will be like the lettering was never there and you are not removing any metal, whatsoever.

I hope I haven't confused you with this. If I have, I will try to shorten it up and word it better, but it should give you the idea of what to do.

Thomas

 

[Bearbait2]

Mr. Thomas,
Never thought of that. What a great way to clean up a barrel! Thank you for sharing.
Best Wishes

 

[TFoley]

You are allowed to remove the manufacturer's proof marks in the USA? :hmm:

Wow! :shocked2:

That is a real no-no here in UK and Europe. :nono:

tac

 

[thomas]

WindWalker, Your more than welcome. :v

Thomas

 

[Stumpkiller]

Yep. On muzzleloaders. I'm pretty sure you can remove all but the serial number, even on "modern" firearms. There are no "proof" marks on weapons sold in the USA unless the country of origin stamps some in for export reasons. We just trust everyone. :shake:

The rub comes in the cases where "defarbing" is done with intent to defraud, or a reworked firearm is passed along or inherited and the new owner thinks they have an original and tries to pass it as such.

You also void any warranty if it is a new firearm.

I would leave the word "Italy", myself.

 

[Swampman]

I took everything off mine with a Dremel tool. It looks great. I wish I had the correct proof stamps like they put on the new India made muskets.

 

[bnail]

That's the best (and only) thing I like about the Indian muskets; it's about time someone took the extra step.
I took off the "Made in Italy," and "Black powder only" marks, but left the seriel # and proofs on my Bess. I took'em off with a file then buffed out the marks.
I have a jewler friend I thought I might ask to see if he couldn't ingrave the appropriate marks onto my Bess for me.

 

[TFoley]

Thank you for that info, Mr Stumpkiller.

Anyone like to buy a genuwine Clot Wlaker? Hardly used since I dremelled the 'Made in Ita....

Sorry, you weren't meant to see that bit... :grin:

tac

 

[Stumpkiller]

Yes. Pity the gun enthusiasts of the year 2106.

Now, every bolt action gun gathering dust in a pawn-shop that was not made in the U.S. in the last century is a "Mauser". Anything with a flint is "from the time of the Revolution". Every gun sold by the DCM (Dept of Civilian Marksmenship) from 1920 to 1938 was "carried in WWI by Grandpaw" in someone's family history.

Just think when all these modern reproductions, especially the artfully "aged" customs, get some true age on them and circulate to non-shooting relatives and are sold once or twice..

 

[CrackStock]

TAC,

I understand that in the USA, MLs are not legally firearms and the firearms regs are therefore not applicable. No proof marking is required, so any that exist can be removed. Kind of nice for re-enactors, but gives some people concern as there are no proof standards or markings regarding them. I do not know of any requirement that requires that even the serial number be left in tact.

As always, you can go to the legal authority at:

www.atf.gov

I would point out that when you remove or obliterate the manufacturers' name and serial number, you may waive many of your legal options regarding holding that entity responsible for the quality of the item.

CS

 

[mikee51848]

Would it not hurt re-sale if you decided at some point? The Pedersoli is worth more than the India ones. When I talk with the public at events and they ask about the Bess, I tell them it's a repo.

 

[CrackStock]

I do not see that this would hurt resale as almost anyone wanting one is intending to use it for re-enacting. Anything that causes it to look closer to the originals adds value to people with this mindset.

On the other hand, it is a consideration that one should weigh.
Now where did I put that nail set... :haha:

CS

 

[Okwaho]

If all you are going to change is the barrel markings then there's no authenticity problem on a Bess. Kit Ravenshear back dated my son's short land pattern Pedersoli to a long land pattern a few years ago and changed everything including adding correct marks except that his {Kit"s} personal mark is there if you know where to look.He even refinished the wood.For all intents and purposes it's a long land pattern Bess with a correct lock date which has had the barrel shortened 4" during it's use as was common.As far as warrantees and liability problems go there is usually a statute of limitation as well as the logistics of suing someone in another state or worse another country which can be a legal nightmare.I wouldn't represent someone in a case of liability involving a gun like this on a contingent fee basis but would want a VERY hefty retainer up front.Besides,once the gun has changed hands a time or two I doubt there is any actionable breach of warrantee or incurring of liability against the manufacturer, distributor,or seller, not to mention the real problem of assumption of risk by subsequent owners.

The ONLY REAL problem I see here is one of ethics and after some 44 years of looking at old guns I know there has seen a lot of faking some of which were absolutely breathtaking, such as the well known New England fowlers, D guard Bowies, and high dollar colt percussion revolvers.I doubt there are very many Besses reworked as suggested above that would fool any seasoned collectors.I say if you want it to look more authentic then HAVE AT IT. We did.
Tom Patton

 

[paulvallandigham]

The product liability laws of the United States do not apply to foreign manufacturers. Enforcing any warranty is also next to impossible, since you probably would have to travel overseas to sue the company.

As to fraudulent guns, true experts will check the metalurgy of a firearm before accepting it as a genuine item. The steels used today to make barrels will fool no one in 25 years. I would, however, suggest making new marks on the underside of the barrel, indicating manufacturer, and date of purchase. this could help your family in the future. I would also suggest carving this info on the inside of the buttplate on the stock. It will ID the gun in case of theft, where a crook is not likely to look, and make clear that you had no intent to defraud anyone when you remove those disgusting factory markings from the top flats of the barrel.

 

[mikee51848]

Would this work on the "Grice 1762" engraving also?

 

[Swampman]

Yes, but it would be better to have the date changed rather than remove it.