Defining types of muzzleloaders??

[technutz]

Well I am sure there are lots of people out there who already know this and I can surely look it up for myself but I would like to know what types of muzzleloaders there are and what makes one type better than the other.

I am looking at getting s starter kit and it is a Hawken rifle. For what I plan it is a nice way to get started building. But what do you guys and gals consider the best, why do you think that way, what are the strenghts and weaknesses of the designs??

Please post your opinion, I want to know what your thoughts are?? :master:

 

[Zonie]

Well I am sure there are lots of people out there who already know this and I can surely look it up for myself but I would like to know what types of muzzleloaders there are and what makes one type better than the other....
:master:

There is no good answer for this question.
There are matchlocks, wheel-locks, flintlocks, precussion locks, in line locks...
There are smooth bores and rifles.
Thin walled barrels, both rifled and smooth bore.
Thick walled barrels, both rifled and smooth bore.
There are half stock, full stock, pistol stocks...
Plain guns, fancy guns, common guns...

What makes one better? It all depends on what you want to do with it.

One thing about muzzleloaders though. They are all fun to build and to shoot.
Most of them have their roots in history.
Owning one, shooting one or building one allows you to be able to personally feel and enjoy something that is close to the same things that helped write history.

 

[Stumpkiller]

There are better or worse muzzleloading designs for the various purposes you might want to put them to. The best engraving and inlay work won't help a rifle knock down a rising pheasant or jinking ruffed grouse. You would want a shotgun for that job. The best squirrel rifle would probably be a lousy elk rifle. The best target rifle won't be the best hunting rifle. If your period of interest is the Revolutionary War, you won't want a Hawkin or a Civil War musket. Rifling that stabilizes a round ball is not the best for a conical. Longer barrels can be more accurate because of the increased sight radius, but are more awkward and can be heavier (swamped barrels improve this). Flintlocks require a bit more technique and talent to guarantee a fast & reliable ignition, and that's a good or bad point depending on your reasons for using a muzzleoader to begin with.

Are you asking what we consider the best Hawkin kit?

 

[technutz]

I would like to know what the members think about different styles of muzzleloaders, and what they consider the different styles to be??

I would like to know about what factors you consider when you pick a type of gun and what your personal tastes are. I want to get a feel for what people think and process they use to make thier descions.

I would like to see a post for example about what makes a Kentucky rifle the gun you like use and how you came to think that way.

I know it is a lot to ask for.

:master:

 

[roundball]

I think the central theme of the replies is that the question you're asking is too "universal"...defies answer.

There are exponentionally more possible answers than there are muzzleloader owners/shooters as many ML owners have multiple, different firearms for different uses, reasons, purposes.

It's like asking everyone who attends art exhibits to describe what they see and why, so you can decide what you see...doesn't work like that.

Ordinarily you'll be drawn towards some style or another based upon your personal interests and that discovery and evolution is actually part of the enjoyment of this sport...enjoy!

:winking:

 

[tg]

I have drifted back in time from the 1840's to the 1760's in my taste in guns styles....maybe farther. a French Fusil has caught my fancy for over a year now and I have researched enough to find what will be a very PC gun if I build it, I must like the looks and feel of the gun and must have an interest in the history/time period of the gun and it must be as close to the originals as I can muster due to cost and availability of parts. I think that the "right" gun is out there it just takes a little time to find it and one may find a bit more of themselves in the process......I have only been looking for this gun for about 34 years....it may take a little longer as my tastes get more particular as I age.

 

[technutz]

From reading some replies from other threads it seems some people prefer some types/styles over others.

Personally I am just getting started and would like something that would be easy to use and to build. I know others have other considerations. What I would like to have is some ideas about what others use for consideration when choosing a weapon.

I would like to know what styles people out there use and the pros and cons they see in each style.

I am not after what makes them interested in particular style other than what they consider the pros and cons of a style of weapon.

:sorry:

 

[Claude Mathis]

I would like to know what the members think about different styles of muzzleloaders, and what they consider the different styles to be??

By styles do you mean, Smoothbore, Rifle, Trade Gun, Musket? I think the question, asked as it is, is too broad and can not be answered without volumes of literature.

At any given time in history, there can be numerous "styles" within a given region. You almost have to narrow it down to a date and location and then pick a category (Military issue, trade guns, custom, smoothbore, rifles, etc.)

I'll wager that if you were more specific, the members could offer quite a bit of information.

 

[roundball]

OK...Mountain Man era...half stock Hawken flintlock and percussion...I like that time period, I like that style rifle, the way if hefts and shoots, the way it drops deer where they stand....I like 45, .50, .54, and .58cal rifles with patched round balls as they are good for squirrels, rabbits, deer, and anything else on the NA continent...and I like a .62cal smoothbore flintlock for squirrels, rabbits, turkey, etc...and I like a .12ga SxS double barrel BP shotgun for doves, crows, etc.

 

[technutz]

OK,

I looked at a traditions St. Louis Hawken, I know there has to be a reason that kit was the only one left on the self, what makes one design better than the rest. Why not the Plainsman design or a Kentucky rifle, what makes them more popular. Not that those are the only choices, but I would like to know what makes one design bettter or more popular than another. By no means are these the only designs out there either, I would like to know what the choices for design are and their reasons for popularity.

For that matter what do you like to use? and why is it a good choice.

Is it still too broad??

I guess I need lots of information.

 

[tg]

Often if you look at the empty shelves or sales records you will find that price, marketing and often missinformation drives the sale of a particular gun, as for quality in any gun as with most things you get what you pay for, in the ML game there is another factor to consider ...do you want a gun that is a replica of a gun from the past, or just a gun that loads from the front, you can spend a lot or a little for either and get a good one or a bad one in either.

 

Technutz,

I know where you are trying to go with your questions. You simply want to know all the answers to everything!:crackup: :crackup:

Seriously, when we talked earlier today, you were pretty sure that you wanted to try building a Traditions Hawken rifle from a kit. Probably a good choice because you can look at their Kentucky Rifle I have on the wall anytime if needed for reference and Traditions makes a pretty good firearm.

But before you purchase anything, you want to make sure you are getting the biggest bang for your buck and are hoping the guys will tell you what are the quality rifles out there so you don't get burned buying something that may be troublesome.

You probably want to narrow your scope down a bit and ask questions like:
What is your favorite manufacturer of 1835-1840 replica percussion rifles, regardless of caliber, and what makes them your favorite? or What side-lock .50 caliber percussion replica rifle produces the tightest groups at 50 yards for you? or What rate of twist is best for certain bbl length and a certain caliber when firing patched balls? or When buying a replica side-lock percussion rifle, which manufacturer has the best wood to metal fit or the best trigger release etc.

Of course you could even try asking this: If you had to narrow down your BP side-lock replica percussion rifles to just one, what would you not want to give up and why? I am using percussion as the example because I think that is the way you wanted to go to get started.

You'll probably use it most for target shooting up at my place so you could narrow your caliber down to somewhere between .36 to maybe, say .54. I think the kit you are looking at is a .50. Probably a good caliber to start with and probably the most available in kits.

You just need to let the guys compare apples to apples and I think you will get what you're after.

If you ask me what is my favorite manufacurer of centerfire revolvers, you already know what I have the most of. You would get a different answer if you asked me about semi-auto pistols. And then rimfires would be different too. You can see where I am going with this. Good luck and I hope you get something to work on at the Big Muddy.

:m2c:

 

[Zonie]

Why was the traditions St. Louis Hawken the only one left on the shelf? Most likely because the owner of the store bought more of them than he did the other kinds.
No, I'm not trying to be a wise guy. The question you ask is the same one the dealer had to ask himself when he bought his supply. "What are they going to want to buy?"
By the way, there is nothing wrong with the Traditions St. Louis Hawken if your not "into" the "Period Correct" mode. It makes a great gun to shoot and have fun with whether you hunt or target shoot or just plink.
If your "into" PC, the gun does not accurately represent most of the guns commonly used in the mid 1800s.

What do I consider to be the reason I have the guns I have?
I own a heavy barreled .45 cal Halfstock Tryon I use for serious target shooting although my .54 TC Hawken can shoot as well.

I own 3 Thompson Center "Hawkens" rifles. Why? Because they are well made, good shooting guns with fantastic guarantees. They don't cost a fortune if you find a used one that was well cared for. The last one I bought cost $220.

I own 9 different Fullstock Pennsylvania rifles I put together myself. Why? Because they represent the styles of 8 different Pennsylvania Countys and time periods from the 1750s thru the 1850s. They are all different and they were fun to build.
Some are Flintlocks, some are precussion style.
The Flintlocks challenge my ability to shoot and the precussion locked guns prove that I do still know how to shoot.
Because they cover 100 years of change, they also allow me to relate to the changes in firearm evolution.
They also give my ego a boost when people admire them.
(hay, we are being honest here).
I think they will be owned and appreciated long after I've past on, and it's good to know something you have made will be here long afterwards.

I have a muzzleloading Schuetzen which eats very expensive (to me) paper patched bullets but shoots as accuratly than at long range as my .223 with an 18 power scope on it.

I own 3 different reproduction rifles representing both the North and the South during the Civil War. They represent the countrys Historic past. They shoot really big heavy bullets that boggle the minds of people at the shooting range. They are also fun to shoot.

I own one 1842 Springfield musket. It is unshootable but it is an actual piece of history I can hold in my hands.

Each and every one of these guns makes a good conversation piece, and that in itself is important to me.

As you can see, there is no one answer. There is no one style of gun that is best.

What is my BEST one? I honestly can't pick one.
Ask me which I would rather use to hunt Elk. Ask me which one I would rather use to hunt squirrel. Ask me which one I would rather use to poke holes in paper targets at 100 yards.
These questions have answers although I would have to think about some of them for a while before answering.

Which muzzleloader should you be interested in and buy?
Only you can answer that. It is the one you really want to have...just Because!

Buying "The Gun" is kinda like finding the love of your life.
To others he/she may not look special, but to you, he/she not only looks special, they are exactly the one you want.
The only real difference is, with guns, you can have as many as you can afford, or convince your "significient other" that you need.

::

 

[Musketeer]

My absolute favorite muzzleloader is the smoothbore flintlock. Whether it's a 20ga. fowling piece or a Brown Bess musket makes no difference. Why are these particular guns my favorite type? Could be the way they look. Could be the way they shoot. Maybe it's the fact that you can shoot ball or shot with equal ease. Maybe it's the sense of historical nostalgia I feel when I shoot them. Really, I think it's a combination of all these things. Sure, these guns have their negatives: they aren't as accurate as rifled guns, the flintlock takes longer to master than percussion, they're pretty much restricted to short range use, etc. Or are these really negatives? To me they aren't. The satisfaction I feel when I hit a target or make a clean kill with my flintlock smoothie is greater than with any other gun I've owned. To me, a gun, whether handgun or long gun, with a big flintlock hanging on the side and a large caliber smoothbore barrel just "feels" right.
If you ask another guy, he may feel the same way about a Pennsylvania style rifle or a Civil War era rifle musket. My point is that each person on this forum probably has his or her favorite type of muzzleloader. No one style or type is any better or worse than any other (as long as you buy a quality gun). You have to look at, handle, read about, and ultimately shoot several types of ML's before you can decide which is best for you. You may even find that you want to have several different types. Some people take a very rational approach, while others like myself just feel "drawn" to a particular style. It's kind of like asking what style of music is best and why. It's a subjective matter. The "best" style of music, in my opinion, is the one that moves you, the one that YOU enjoy listening to.
Wow! This is gettin' kinda metaphysical, man.....Ohm, Ohm! :crackup: But seriously, nobody else can tell you what the "best" ML is, though many may try.... :thumbsup:

 

I used to like inlines. :what:
Untill I came here and got corrupted.
Now I shoot period correct flintlocks.
I can't build anything. I'm not allowed to touch anything that has a sharp edge or plugs into a power outlet. ::
I'm a clutz. I just bought an ATV and everyone is making book on how soon I'll wrap it around a tree. :hmm:
I buy my rifles from birddog6. He's very,very,good.
If I were going to build a rifle I start with a percussion half stock Hawken.

 

[technutz]

More than anything else I wanted to know what others look for in the design. What I want is some perspective on the thoughts of people who have doing this sport for much longer than I.

BTW, I am going to buy the Hawken, my mother in law sent me a check for my birthday that will just about cover the cost of the kit. Unless I see a better one before I get to the store.


Being an old-time online shopper, it is kinda frustrating to not find a lot of kits being sold online. The margin on them must be slim, well at least for the ones I can afford.

 

[bob1961]

you might try looking at TOTW site at there kits for a more of an idea of what each looks like that you are after or get some other idea's like i have done to figure what i want to build..........................bob

 

[technutz]

TOTW ??

 

[Slowpoke]

Track of the Wolf

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/

 

[shmrck1]

technutz,
lots of information that you have received but
the final choice is yours. re-read everything you have already read and then think what do i want to do with this
rifle and your answer is in that forum. good luck!

snake-eyes :m2c: eace: :thumbsup: