Definition of *Traditional*?

[SavageArcher]

gordy, I think you've explained exactly how alot of folks who use a tradional "styled" muzzleloader feel, including me. T/Cs,Lymans, etc. may have modern coil sring locks and such but loading and hunting with them would be the same as using a high dollar PC gun. I'm just getting back into frontstuffin' guns and also have a budding intrest in buckskinning, so I may be on the bottom end of the learning curve but I'm picking up alot from this forum and outside sources.

I'd might like to be able to go to a rondy in as full pc gear as possible someday, but for now I'm just intrested in shootin', huntin' and learnin' about the history, lifestyles and skills, of hunters and trappers on the frontiers be they longhunters, mountainmen and the likes. After all I share some of the same veiws of those folks, a dislike of authority, of being hemmed by settlers and soceity, and most of all a love of freedom to run the woods.

Does this quailfy as my first rant on the board? :shocking:

 

[Claude Mathis]

I think the first decision block is high level one...you are either headed down the "Modern Inline Technology" path, or the "Traditional Technology" path...if the the latter, then you're in the "Traditional" category. Then, within that "Traditional" category there are greater and greater degrees of "Traditional" all the way to "purist".

[snip]

The way I see it,[url] MuzzleloadingForum.com[/url] members all fall into the Traditional category...just at different places along that path, dictated by interest, time, money, knowledge, resources, etc.

We all know what "traditional" means in this context and the above statement pretty much sums it up. Anything else is just splitting hairs in an effort to make a philosophical argument out of something quite simple.

:thumbsup:

 

[bnail]

We all know what "traditional" means in this context and the above statement pretty much sums it up. Anything else is just splitting hairs in an effort to make a philosophical argument out of something quite simple.

Oh Claude, hair-splitting's half the fun!
no harm no foul :thumbsup:

 

[Bob J]

T/Cs,Lymans, etc. may have modern coil sring locks and such but loading and hunting with them would be the same as using a high dollar PC gun. I'm just getting back into frontstuffin' guns and also have a budding intrest in buckskinning, so I may be on the bottom end of the learning curve but I'm picking up alot from this forum and outside sources.

I'd might like to be able to go to a rondy in as full pc gear as possible someday, but for now I'm just intrested in shootin', huntin' and learnin' about the history, lifestyles and skills, of hunters and trappers on the frontiers be they longhunters, mountainmen and the likes. After all I share some of the same veiws of those folks, a dislike of authority, of being hemmed by settlers and soceity, and most of all a love of freedom to run the woods.

:agree: Well said :front:

 

[Claude Mathis]

We all know what "traditional" means in this context and the above statement pretty much sums it up. Anything else is just splitting hairs in an effort to make a philosophical argument out of something quite simple.

Oh Claude, hair-splitting's half the fun!
no harm no foul :thumbsup:

Maybe it's because as I get older, I have less hairs to split? :crackup:

 

[3 stinky dogs]

I like Stumpkiller's idea of tradition.Yes I want to try a camp out / hunting trip like they did it in the old days one time in my life but I wont miss time in the woods because I dont have buck skins and a $5,000 gun.I can see how there is a need for PC Nazi's thow to.Thew are trying to demonstrate how thing's were done during that era so in an attempt to correctly portrey the skill's and all that they need to be as accuret as possible.

 

If I split my hairs I'd get twice as much, right? Keep me warmer in the winter. We had this discussion months ago when the TMA kicked off. Possibly we are mis-using the word "traditional". Basically it means to me using the type of arms 'handed down to us' from our ancestors (see dictionary defintion). Now, my grandfather handed a Remington mod 11 auto 12 gauge down to me! :: He had sold his hog rifle when he left the mountains and entered the modern world of Little Rock! But most of us know what we mean by traditional muzzleloader. I do not exclude the wooden stocked CVA and TC Hawkens or GPRs, but do exclude the plastic versions and all inlines. If you want to get picky, the coil spring locks are not traditional, in that greatgrandad didn't use them. But they don't offend me at all. I choose to be "period correct" for specific periods and that narrows the definition of traditional considerably. :results:

 

[Claude Mathis]

But most of us know what we mean by traditional muzzleloader. I do not exclude the wooden stocked CVA and TC Hawkens or GPRs, but do exclude the plastic versions and all inlines. If you want to get picky, the coil spring locks are not traditional, in that greatgrandad didn't use them. But they don't offend me at all. I choose to be "period correct" for specific periods and that narrows the definition of traditional considerably. :results:

I agree, me too, what he said. :thumbsup:

 

[blksmth52]

But most of us know what we mean by traditional muzzleloader. I do not exclude the wooden stocked CVA and TC Hawkens or GPRs, but do exclude the plastic versions and all inlines. If you want to get picky, the coil spring locks are not traditional, in that greatgrandad didn't use them. But they don't offend me at all. I choose to be "period correct" for specific periods and that narrows the definition of traditional considerably. :results:

I agree, me too, what he said. :thumbsup:

Right-O :agree:

Sparky

 

[TANSTAAFL]

Ditto. Tradition is as tradition does, nuff said.

 

[bnail]

Ditto. Tradition is as tradition does, nuff said.

::Not necessarily. . . After I retired from the Marine Corps, The VA Graciously agreed to send me to college, so I packed up the family and away I went. upun settling into academia, I made the best of my surroundings, which were all these young, liberal-minded, progressive future leraders of our country. I then was introduced to my new label, Me, who's always treasured the old ways and values of my forefathers had the label of "Nontrad." Of course, all the youngsters with their alternative ways and pierced everything were the "traditional students"
So, here's from a non traditional who appreciates the old ways! :thumbsup:
to all you other non trads out there. . . :hatsoff:

 

[olgriz]

I remember what John Baird said many years ago in the gone too long "Buckskin Report" when he was trying to define this same subject to a bunch of independent minded buckskinners. John said "Don't offend the camera". In other words, if someone takes a picture it should look like the era being portrayed in the photo, but what is out of sight is perfectly OK. I've kind of governed my views along those lines. That means that a TC with a coil spring fits in, and you can wear socks and skivvies and have a cooler in the tent. It is surprising how many purists smoke tailor made cigarettes. There are the purist thread counters and I actually admire them, but it's not for me. The rules at any shooting match I attend state open sights, no shaders, no peep, no plastic showing. The shoots I attend anymore are usually trail walks, shooting at clangers, so you have to shoot out of a pouch, yet these same guys will go over to the the shot gun range and shoot at the clay birds only this time they are shooting out of a box loaded with all sorts of stuff. I don't shoot shotguns, so I don't understand all that stuff, but it must be important 'cause they all do it. We all know that the pre 1840 rules mean no scopes or plastic or bolt actions, but by the same token, why should anyone care if the rifle has a coil spring. If I want to take it out I can shoot it I have an original long rifle that looks a lot like Wolfgang Haga had something to do with it. Does that make me more "traditional" than a guy with a TC. I think not. The sights on the that original rifle are horrible, they sit so low to the barrel that after a couple of shots the heat waves all but obscure them. And this is true on most all original rifles I've looked at. So the guy with the high dollar repo isn't all that original after all, because if you look at his open sights they are modern, designed for being shot at a modern target range in a modern method, many shots one right after another -- not the traditional one shot at a mark and a long wait between shots, for maybe five or six shots in an entire day. So if the high dollar gun can have non traditional sights, why can't the traditional styled wooden stocked TC have a coil spring that's out of sight? One last thing, the TC out of the box has adjustable sights, and we would require that the rear sight be changed to a fixed sight to shoot with the folks I hang around with. Other than that, join in and have some fun. If I've rambled it's because I have a 6 year old at my elbow wanting my attention.

 

[Claude Mathis]

There is a second group I know that are thread counting PC Nazi's that condemn any firearm costing less then $600 that is not custom made, and only PC accouterments and dress, if you spend more on a college education then your outfit you're out.

I have never met anyone like that, or heard this sentiment expressed on the Forum. If I did meet people like that, I'd certainly have nothing to do with them.

The above description sounds like a gross exaggeration, used to paint a group of people in a bad light, perhaps to further an agenda.

 

[tg]

I think it is the ghost pc Nazis Claude.....I have never seen or heard any of them, only tails told by those trying to justify their own choices as being "proper" and close enough and to place the cost of the gun as a gauge is ridiculus as it has nothing to do with how well researched the piece is or isn't.....BTW...FWIW....I am not attacking anyone with this post...

 

[scott k]

BTW...FWIW....I am not attacking anyone with this post...

When are you going to stop :kid: :crackup:
Lehigh....