Dental lead hardness

[Idaho Ron]

I started to pour my own bullets a couple of years ago and now I am paper patching bullets. I have been trying different hardness's. A couple of days ago I got a hardness tester. This this is the coolest nonshooting thing I have bought in a long time, but not cheep. I ran tests on all my lead.
I ran a test on dental xray lead. The stuff I got is running 10BHN that is equivalent of 20-1 lead. For some time I have believed that it was harder than pure. In fact the pure I got from Rotometal is running 5.
The mix I have been making and shooting with great success out of my 45, is between 6 and 7 BHN. It will be interesting to see how this will help in making consistent bullets. Ron

 

[RetiredMedic]

Caution!!!
When you buy on-line (e-bay), you don't know what you getting..

I just bought 60 lbs that stated it was pure lead and when I received it, I tested it with a BHN Hardness tester. Found it to be 10 BHN, which is wheels weights..

You can't trust any you buy in the ingot form.
You don't know for sure if it a mix or pure till you test it..

My .45 cal flint likes the 6 to 7 BHN mix also..

I will be looking for some plummer pipes this week so I can mix it with the stuff I bought already..
I learn a good lesson not to buy off line again...

 

[Idaho Ron]

I feel your pain. I got some lead that the guy said was "pure lead" and it turned out to be 22BHN! It would make great CF bullets but you can't pound them down a ML.
Another guy said he "couldn't give away" soft lead. I told him to send me a ingot and I would test it. Then he said it ranked 15 BHN, I told him I wanted 5 BHN and he didn't write back.
I would be very careful mixing the 10BHN lead to soft lead. The chart I have says 10 BHN is not wheel weight. It says it is actually 20-1 which is not super hard, but it is twice as hard as pure lead.
It won't take much of the harder lead to mess up a good bunch of soft lead.
Ron

 

[mazo kid]

You're lucky to be able to get the X-Ray lead foil. My dentist said he has a "service" that takes all his. It's funny the tire shops, etc. won't sell you the lead or wheel weights as they say it is illegal. However, you can buy all you want from the salvage yards.

 

[sidelock]

Has anyone tested the hardness of swaged RB found on the market? I have always cast lead bought in 5# ingots from the local plumbing supply but don't know how that tests. My cast RB are more accurate than boughten swaged.

 

[Idaho Ron]

My tester is a Cabin Tree tester. It uses a machinist dial for reading and it has a chart to tell what the BHN is.
1- Hornady Great plains bullets read, .029 which is in the middle of the 5 BHN range.
2- Hornady round balls are, .006 which is on the very soft side of the 5 BHN range.
3- Speer round balls are .021 in the middle of the 5 BHN range.
4- The plumbers lead I have runs .031 to .035 it is at the top of the 5 BHN range.
5- Rotometal lead is .018 to .025 which is in the middle of the 5 BHN range.
6- Lead shot, .074 to .078 This is about 13 BHN about the same as wheel weight.
I know a few more guys that have been taken on ebay on lead that was not soft. Be careful when getting lead I found out the hard (pun intended) way. Ron

 

[Greenmtnboy]

My tester is a Cabin Tree tester. It uses a machinist dial for reading and it has a chart to tell what the BHN is.
1- Hornady Great plains bullets read, .029 which is in the middle of the 5 BHN range.
2- Hornady round balls are, .006 which is on the very soft side of the 5 BHN range.
3- Speer round balls are .021 in the middle of the 5 BHN range.
4- The plumbers lead I have runs .031 to .035 it is at the top of the 5 BHN range.
5- Rotometal lead is .018 to .025 which is in the middle of the 5 BHN range.
6- Lead shot, .074 to .078 This is about 13 BHN about the same as wheel weight.
I know a few more guys that have been taken on ebay on lead that was not soft. Be careful when getting lead I found out the hard (pun intended) way. Ron

That's a little disheartning because I bought 50 lbs from Rotometal for RB only. Haven't had a chance to see how it will shoot out of my GMB's.
It's only a little harder than Hornaday, what
is your opinion.

 

[buttonbuck]

how about lead aprons from x ray labs, My brother said he can get me some of those? I just got some dental lead I can scratch it with my nail. I chilled lead shot soft enough? Someone gave me a 25 lb bag of it hope to get some casting done

 

[paulvallandigham]

According to factory standards, Chilled Shot is 98% lead, and up to 2% antimony, making it pretty soft. The only way you can know if it suits your needs to to melt some and weigh or test them for hardness. It is pretty soft shot, and is known to flatten out when fired from most hot smokeless powder loads. I could not find a hardness rating for the stuff. Perhaps someone else will chime in who knows.

 

[Idaho Ron]

Greenmtnboy, the round balls are very soft. The Hornady great plains bullets are actually a little harder than the Rotometal lead. I think you are going to like the rotometal lead. I like it so far.
buttonbuck, I don’t know about the aprons. I have never messed with them. Ya a guy can scratch the dental lead but it is hard. A guy can probably shoot them as PRB’s just fine for targets. Chilled lead shot is 13 BHN and it is HARD. I have shot it but it is too hard to shoot as conicals.
Paul, here is a web page to check out. Chilled shot is hard, I have tried them. Ron
http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletNotes.htm

 

[Semisane]

how about lead aprons from x ray labs, My brother said he can get me some of those?

Careful there, buttonbuck. If you start melting those lead aprons all of those trapped X-Rays will escape. Then you'll be in big trouble with the EPA. :wink:

 

[paulvallandigham]

Thanks, Ron. I knew someone out there would know the hardness on this lead shot. I get the sweats anytime I see the word Antimony mentioned in the same sentence with Lead, as it hardens lead much faster than tin will. Up to 2% of Antimony does not sound like much, but it does not take much to harden lead. :thumbsup: :hatsoff:

 

[Idaho Ron]

I used the lead shot bullets paper patched. They were accurate in my 45. I didn't care for them because they were not quite as accurate as the softer lead. And I was afraid they would not open up on big game. The Rotometal lead I have is the right "softness" for my bullets. It matches the lead my grandpa gave me and I have been using. And it matches Hornady great plains lead pretty well. Ron

 

[paulvallandigham]

I would find someone who is loading shotgun shells and trade them or sell them the bag of lead shot, rather than melt it down. With the price of a bag of shot what it is these days, you have to make a profit.

 

[NE Hunter]

I just was given some dental lead. I plan on making .490 rb for my .50 cal. Is this lead too hard for that purpose and maybe better suited to more modern loadings ( .44 mag., .454 casull, and .45-70)

 

[paulvallandigham]

Yes, the lead is probably too hard, from what we have seen here. The only way to be sure what you have is to test it. Lead Hardness testers are available, and you can find them by searching the internet. If you do a lot of casting, you need to have your own tester, so you know what the scrap we all pick up is, and what you can use for what. I use very hard lead only for pistol and revolver bullets. I use pure lead for MLers. I use a 1:20 mix of tin to lead for making bullets for rifles. These harder bullets, properly lubed, can be fired up to about 1900 fps without leading my barrel. However, when you get these bullets going over 1200 fps you need to consider using some kind of base wad to protect the base of the bullets from melting. Some shooters in BPCS games use base wads on all their loads without regard to this arbitrary reference Point I use. If the base of the bullet is melted, the weight of the bullet changes, and the edge of the base is marred, so that a bullet of different weight, and one that releases from the crown of the muzzle differently from the lst bullet fired, opening up groups, and producing an occasional extreme flyer.

 

[nchawkeye]

I've used dental lead in my .54 and .40 caliber for about 20 years, never had a problem...

 

[Lead Chucker]

Just curious, when you guys measure the hardness of lead, do you take into account that the hardness is dependent on more than just the alloy?

For example do you melt/cool using a repeatable regimen before measuring?

 

[Idaho Ron]

I lead was cooled at least 2 weeks. Some was cooled longer and I don't know how long maybe years since it was melted last. The longer the lead sits the harder it gets. Some of the softest lead I tested was melted 20 years ago or more. The dental lead was over a month ago and probably closer to two months ago. While the melt/test times are probably different. One thing that is for sure. The hardness at the time it was tested. If it is too hard to make bullets then it will always be too hard if it is not mixed with softer lead. I personally would not try it.
Hard lead like WW and the little bit softer dental lead will shoot fine as a PRB, or a paper patched bullet. The problem is the harder the lead means it is lighter. So if your gun is sighted in for soft lead the hard lead will shoot higher. Also my point of impact with conicals not only hit higher but it also shot 3" to the left. My groups are better with the soft.
Ron

 

[Greenmtnboy]

Thanks Ron,
Hay im still in development stage with my .451.
I have the option of casting lead from culled hornady Round balls or Rotometal I am not shooting paper patch. Whats your opinion about eather or.
also do you think with the nature of a 450 grn bullet I am just spinning my wheels starting with 80 grns of ffg?
I have had very good accuracy with 50cal cast soft lead conicles and a low powder charge getting perfect upset but only at moderate ranges under 300yrds.
Do you feel I need to heat up the load to get better down range accuracy out of my .451?
:hatsoff: