Dented Armor

Here's a couple of pieces of firearms damaged armor I found at Higgins Armory in Worcester, Massachusetts.

Those old boys got a surprise!

Just :m2c:

 

[SquirrelsaurusR]

Cool stuff. Any thoughts as to what calibers those balls might have been? Or what location/time period the dents happened? Maybe we can make some guesses about the types of guns used...

 

[Xtramad]

Breast plates were quality tested by gunfire before being issued.

 

[Light Dragoon]

In 1988 the boys at the Graz, Austria Landzughaus took out some original arms from the armoury there, incuding a wheellock pistol and carbine. Among the tests they conducted was to see if they could pierce an original breastplate from 1570 or so. They both managed to cleanly pierce the breastplate. The pistol was shot from something like 8 meters, the carbine from somewhat further away. But what is interesting with the pistol is although the breastplate was punched through, the linen on the other side DID stop the ball. :shocking: Interesting!

Anyway, most of the decent armour was, as noted above, "proved" or proof-tested prior to planishing and issue/sales. Sometimes the "proof" was done with a ball-peen hammer of course, but usually it was legit. The armour with MORE than one dent in it was definitely battle-tested though!

Thanks for posting those pictures. Cool stuff!

Gordon

 

[guncobbler]

Higgins Armory is a must place to see if you are in central MA. That and Old Sturbridge Village. Grew up 12 miles from each of them. Our favorite was the armor for the dog. GC

 

[mikee51848]

Who volunteered to do the testing? :crackup:

 

[SquirrelsaurusR]

Whether it's testing or combat, if we can guess near enough the answers to the questions is asked earlier, we can still hazard some theories about the types of guns used. We can't prove anything, but I'll bet we could come pretty close if we put our heads together.

 

Cool stuff. Any thoughts as to what calibers those balls might have been? Or what location/time period the dents happened? Maybe we can make some guesses about the types of guns used...

Well you can use the fingers on the guantlets to guesstimate size. The first piece I would say is roughly .60 to .70 caliber. As to the second piece, that definitely looks to be a 4 bore, 1.00" minimum. So you take it from there. These were definitely ball strikes. I'll see what I can find out at a future date.

I've got some firearm photos to resize as soon as I can get them done to put up for you to drool over. I had the kids with me, so I didn't have a chance to take notes.

:results:

 

[lanedh]

What d'ya mean, volunteer ??

 

[bovey]

I think that was the job of the serif... lot's of turnover in that job position.:haha::haha::haha:

 

[Wes/Tex]

I've never seen any mention about the bore size of guns used to test breast plates. The procedure was to fire a pistol ball at the completed breast plates to show they were thick enough to resist a close pistol shot. It's also been found that some armor makers used a hammer similar to what we now know as a ball-peen hammer to simulate the impact of a pistol ball. Guess they didn't expect unhappy customers to bring the breast plates back for a refund!!

 

Hey, if someone has a metal breastplate to donate, I've got the balls to test it. ::

Just finished casting some Four Bore (.990) balls. Now to find a target stand. What you thought I was going to stand there while someone takes pot shots at me? :nono: Hey, I'm crazy, not stupid! :shake: :crackup:

 

[Musketeer]

Well you can use the fingers on the guantlets to guesstimate size. The first piece I would say is roughly .60 to .70 caliber. As to the second piece, that definitely looks to be a 4 bore, 1.00" minimum.

Whatever hit that second breastplate, it was BIG! :shocking:Interestingly, it appears that one of the dents is actually a hole. I wonder how the guy who was wearing it at the time fared. :shocking: :thumbsup:

 

[Wes/Tex]

Talk about a dent! The latest volume in Osprey's "Men-At-Arms" series shows a breast and back plate worn by a French Carabiner at Waterloo who slowed down a 6 pound British cannon ball! Talk about 'through & through'!!!!

 

[Musketeer]

Talk about a dent! The latest volume in Osprey's "Men-At-Arms" series shows a breast and back plate worn by a French Carabiner at Waterloo who slowed down a 6 pound British cannon ball! Talk about 'through & through'!!!!

Oh, man! Talk about "stopping power!" :shocking: :: :crackup: :thumbsup:

 

[Gary]

In 1992 the Austrians put their armour collection on a road show and in CA, it was promoted by our now ruling Gubernator, Ah-nauld. "Treasures of Art, Arms and Armor From the State of Sytria" was an excellent show and it also featured armor that had been dented. It mentioned that proofing was done to statisfy the patron that his armor was protected against the gonne.

 

[Musketeer]

In 1992 the Austrians put their armour collection on a road show and in CA, it was promoted by our now ruling Gubernator, Ah-nauld. "Treasures of Art, Arms and Armor From the State of Sytria" was an excellent show and it also featured armor that had been dented. It mentioned that proofing was done to statisfy the patron that his armor was protected against the gonne.

I don't doubt that this happened, but, geez, that's like buying a new top of the line Lexus and having the dealer crash the thing into a wall to prove that the airbags are working... :shocking: :: From what I've read, full suits of plate cost about the same in their day as a top shelf car does nowadays. :shake: :thumbsup:

 

[Gary]

Just the breastplate was shot. No shots at brainbuckets or other parts of the armor. Heck, they should have done like the troops did in the Mother of All American Family Feuds (aka: Sybil Wa-oh) and rolled bales of water soaked hemp in front of them. Even bales of cotton would have worked but this "modern" technology wasn't known in the 15-16th Century. :front:

 

[benvenuto]

In 1992 the Austrians put their armour collection on a road show and in CA, it was promoted by our now ruling Gubernator, Ah-nauld. "Treasures of Art, Arms and Armor From the State of Sytria" was an excellent show and it also featured armor that had been dented. It mentioned that proofing was done to statisfy the patron that his armor was protected against the gonne.

I saw the same show when it came here (in fact I was a volunteer guide) Bresatplates (and Shields) could be ordered in two grades: Pistol proofed and Carbine proofed. The armourer, or armourers guild would be responsible for testing. Normal loads were used, but pistol shots delivered at closer distance than carbine shots. The dent in the armour was left unrepaired, but the armourers, or guild stamp applied next to it in most cases. Most of the mass produced armour in the exhibition was dinged. However, in the display of pikemans/sword and buckler mans armour, some of the bucklers had half a dozen dings in them besides the test mark