Deringer MV?

[GBG]

Has anyone chronographed a .45 deringer with about a 3" barrel and 20 grns. of 3Fg with a PRB? I did a forum search and looked through all my written info with no luck.

Gave my last .45x3" to my step grandson without ever firing it over the chrono and Now i get curious.

 

[M. De Land]

Dang, now I am too! I have a 35-P Oheler but no derringer to shoot over it.Same shape as you I guess.
I'd guess maybe 600 fps or so with 20 grains of 3F, 130 grain ball. MD

 

[MSW]

i agree, but then again, i have never put one over a chrono ... remember that this was a 'weapon of last resort,' so you trade off the concealability for the fact that you're not getting what you'd call a 'manstopper.'

just a thought...

make good smoke!

 

[George T.]

Given a very short barrel and a modest load it is a last resort type weapon. Not to mention one shot. I am glad that I was never in a situation like that! Geo. T.

 

[GBG]

M.D. here's the published chrono data I've found. All barrels are .45 cal. with 1:66" twist and use GOEX 3Fg powder with a PRB. The carbine was added for comparison to get a third example.

CVA Colonial 6.75" bbl. 20grns/791fps ; 40 grns/1012 fps.

CVA Kentucky 10.25"bbl. 20grns/859fps ; 40grns/1153fps.

Douglas carbine 20"bbl. - - - - - - - - - - - - 40 grns/1453fps.

Looks like 600 fps with 20grns 3F is a reasonable estimate.

I've read the shortest deringer barrels were about 1.5". I'd like to take an old. 45 barrel and cut off 1" at a time, then measure MV all the way down to 1.5" to see what minimum the old timers found useful. Just curiosity.

 

[Don]

With 30 grains of Pyro P you will get some where between 500 and 600 ft/sec. With just 20 you might get 300 ft/sec.

Don

 

[M. De Land]

Nah, I'm pretty sure it'll be faster than that! My target loads in my.44 are 15 grains of 3F and it's going faster than 300 Fps. MD

 

[Don]

I've chronographed several derringers and they all have poor velocities because of the short barrels. BP and their subs need longer barrels to insure that the gases have sufficient time to act on the projectile. A .44 revolver or single shot pistol doesn't need as much powder to reach 600 ft/sec because it has a longer barrel. 500 to 600 feet per second is slow but still deadly generating around 80 plus foot pounds of energy.

Don

 

[M. De Land]

Derringers are probably smooth bores,no? Would that tend to make them faster or slower than a rifled barrel in short lengths?
What were your chronograph readings on the Derringers you tested? MD

 

[Don]

Traditions Philadelphia Derringer 30 grains powder-544 ft/sec-84 ft/lbs pressure._rifled bore 28 grains Pyro P 462 ft/sec-61 ft/lbs pressure. Even a small decrease in powder charge makes a big difference here.

Classic Arms New Orleans Ace-23 grains Pyro P 583 ft/sec-92 ft/lbs pressure. Slightly longer barrel than Philly Derringer come in both smooth and rifled barrels.

Pedersoli Screw barrel derringer 10 grains 777 3f 515 ft/sec-82 ft/lbs pressure. Loaded at breach with oversized ball. This accounts for velocities on par with patched ball loaded at muzzle even with a small powder charge. The swagged ball built up more pressure behind it boosting velocity. Bore is rifled.

Derringers wern't useless but their short barrels did limit their performance.

Don

 

[cynthialee]

every cva, traditions and jukar derringer barrel I have owned was rifled, not that it would likely make much differance in such a short barrel

Also, wouldn't the tightness of the ball/patch combo have an impact on them numbers you guys are throwing out?

 

[GBG]

Even a small decrease in powder charge makes a big difference here.

Thank you for those measured MVs...that's surprising and interesting.
Read an old U.S. Army report once that said a projectile (don't recall what type but it had to be an Army standard) could inflict a fatal wound at 400 fps. I guess the conclusion is 30 grns of 3F or P would be the minimum charge for across the card table deringer effectiveness.

 

[TFoley]

Derringers wern't useless but their short barrels did limit their performance.Don

I'm pretty certain that Mrs Lincoln would disagree with your opinion.

tac

 

[Shifty]

Not trying to hijack the thread ,but what kind of velocity do you think I am getting with my 16" pistol barrel with 50grns FFg Goex and a PRB.

 

[Zoar]

Lincoln was shot behind the left ear with a 44 caliber 2 and 1/2 inch long barreled single shot cap lock "vest pistol" or "deringer"... It was manufactured by Henry Deringer of Philadelphia.

I would like to know if anyone has done velocity chronographs with THAT style pistol and what the velocities results were with 10 to 40 grains of BP.

 

[TFoley]

Lincoln was shot behind the left ear with a 44 caliber 2 and 1/2 inch long barreled single shot cap lock "vest pistol" or "deringer"... It was manufactured by Henry Deringer of Philadelphia.

I would like to know if anyone has done velocity chronographs with THAT style pistol and what the velocities results were with 10 to 40 grains of BP.

Whatever velocity it achieved, or failed to achieve, it achieved the purpose of the assassin and killed the president.

tac

 

[Don]

I didn't say they were ineffective just that a short barrel is limiting in terms of velocity. :shake:

Don

 

[M. De Land]

I read some where that the Derringers usually killed with the resultant infection they produced from the germs the greased patch and ball dragged into the wound with them.
They seldom killed quickly with body hits according to the article. MD