Did real Hawken's have a patchbox?

[Pittsburghunter]

Just wondering as I search for rifles to buy.

 

[Swampman]

Some did, there are no real Hawken replicas that I am aware of. There is one poor copy that I'm aware of. I'm not sure it's in production yet.

 

Some Hawken rifles did indeed have patchboxes. The "Christmas Tree" patchbox as seen on the Modena Rifle and another'n on ppg. 36 & 37 of Baird's Hawken: Mountain Man's Choice. Many Had capboxes with a pineapple finial (maybe it was a acorn) :rotf: This is one in the Smithsonian:

Some capboxes on Hawken rifles were as simple as just an iron oval let into the wood. This is one of the nicer styles of capboxes.
This next image is a patch box on a 1837 S.Hawken. made in St. Louis.

Some of them were pretty fancy as you can see.

 

[Pittsburghunter]

Thank you both for the replies :thumbsup: Now was the average rifle sold during Hawken's hayday equiped with one? Or was it only on fancey even custom for the day rifles?

 

[Swampman]

I think they were not the norm.
[url] http://www.thehawkenshop.com/examples1.htm[/url]

 

[Pittsburghunter]

I just lost a bid for the closest looking rifle I have ever seen production made to a real Hawken:cursing:

Oh well I figured I was safe with 32 seconds to go lol. I hope "Yorkydog" likes his new rifle. Congrats if you are out here :hatsoff:

 

[musketman]

Just wondering as I search for rifles to buy.
Did real Hawken's have a patchbox?

Here is a real Hawken and forum member Liver Eatin Johnson...

I have finally found the right place to share an experience I will never forget. Years ago I got a call from a friend who said I should come down and see a rifle he was working on. He had been asked by the owner's family to try and recreate a suitable ram rod for it before they donated it to a local museum. I grabbed my camera and got there just before sundown. Here are digital copies of the 35mm pictures I took which I have have only shown to people whom I knew would truely appreciate them.

The whole thread:[url] http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/14042[/url]/

 

It was common for Hawken rifles to have patchboxes or capboxes in the period from 1822-1840 or so. Not every Hawken had them but it seems that it was pretty common. The common became the scarcity after about 1849. Not many examples of Patchboxes and/or capboxes after that but there are post 1849 examples such as the Smithsonian Hawken above. 1849 was the year Jake died of cholera and Sam was making all the decisions. Maybe that has something to do with the change. The 1849 demands because of the Gold Rush may have had something to do with it as well.

 

[dmills]

I'm curious, what what the rifle you lost the bid on?

 

[Pittsburghunter]

It was a 1971 first production made buy CVA in America. A real nice looking rifle high bid was $290 lol like I said I posted a $285 with 32 seconds left.

 

[Rebel]

CVA Mountain rifle? If so, you should have bid a bit more. One of the nicer Hawken style rifles.

 

[Pittsburghunter]

Here is the address of the auction, it was on Auction Arms see what you think of the rifle looked pretty nice to me.

OOPS! Never mind the address was so long it would have streched out the forum. Go to[url] Auctionarms.com[/url] scroll down the homepage to blackpowder click on that and then you will see a drop down on the right that is part of the search function that reads "open auctions" click on that change to closed last 48hrs and then click the search button and you will find all the info about it.

 

[Rebel]

Yep, a Mt rile alright. A real good deal, especially with the bag and accessories. But i think he was wrong about the rate of twist. They had a 1-66" twist. I would have like to have gotten that one myself.

 

[Pittsburghunter]

Did you read the whole story behind the rifle? It is interesting that just the first two batches of rifles were made by some master gun builder from their parts and the rest I guess we know is history. This does give me a whole new outlook on older CVA products.

Hey 32 seconds and the only other people bidding up stopped this guy came out of nowhere and stole my rifle lol.

 

[Rebel]

I've had that happen on a few guns that i was bidding on too. But then, i have done it myself too, so i guess i deserved it.

 

[AZ-Robert]

Here is a real Hawken and forum member Liver Eatin Johnson...

Thanks for that, Musketman.

Just being nosey here, and not meaning to dis a genuine Hawken, but what do you cap-snappers think about the way the hammer comes down on that nipple? Don't we go for a more square fit nowadays?

for reference:[url] http://www.trackofthewolf.com...=12&subId=83&styleId=290&partNum=AAC-186[/url]

 

[Pittsburghunter]

Well the thing is 150yo so I imagine things have shifted a bit. I noticed that the tang to barrel fit wasn't perfect but remember it is very old.

My .32Win Special made in the early 1900's has 80% of the slots in the screws not square. But it has worked fine for the better part of a century. In fact so many screws are not square I think they were made that way on purpose. :grin:

 

[John Taylor]

I thought my old eyes were playing tricks on me but if you saw it to then I guess I was seeing right. Something is not right. Maybe it had a shorter nipple at one time.

 

If the surface of the hammer cup is square with the nipple it should work alright. I have had to use a grinder on some hammer faces to make the nipple and hammer hit square depending on the lock and breech combinations used.

 

[AZ-Robert]

I thought my old eyes were playing tricks on me but if you saw it to then I guess I was seeing right. Something is not right. Maybe it had a shorter nipple at one time.

That could be it. Now that you mention it, the nipple on there looks pretty shiney... probably a fairly recent replacement.