Did uberti ever make a small frame 1858 navy?

[Blackpowderart]

I just won this on gunbroker. I have been looking for a lyman uberti 1858 navy because I wanted an uberti navy with a 6.5 inch barrel. By looking at the photos it appears to me that it is smaller than the current navy's which are identical to the army frame with a half inch shorter barrel. The new ones are literally an 1858 army with a .36 barrel and cylinder. The one in the photo was manufactured in 1988. I will have a definite answer when I receive it, but I wanted you guys thought because I'm sure some of you have or have had one in the past. I don't know if it is as small as an original "belt pistol" but it seems smaller than current production navy's based
on the loading lever and how small it seems to be as compared to the display box. The guy selling it wasn't a black powder enthusiast. Will keep you updated once it arrives. Will post photos compared to my uberti 1858 army

 

[CaptainVane]

I have a Lyman Ubert 1858 .36 6.5” barrel built in 1971. Unfired since birth.
Side by side to my Uberti Colt Navy .36 it is smaller by a smidge.
Is it smaller than other Rem ‘58 models; I don’t know i dont have any to compare?
Heres a picture but its really hard to compare unless you hold them.

 

[CaptainVane]

PS - i truly dont know, but ive been told, the Lyman Uberti .36 6.5” were only made for a couple years, relatively rare, and were considered one of the top quality Uberti ever made. I have no clue if true. No idea. Ive had many offers to sell, nope, will pass to my son. Everyone say just shoot it. I cant. The Colt is my range piece. I love it. The Rem will sit on my dresser until it passrs to my son.
Like the guy said in Raiders, this watch is $10 but in a thousand years it will be priceless. Maybe many generations from now an unfired Rare Uberti .36 may pay to put a great great grandson thru college. Who knows, worth a shot.

 

[Crow Choker]

When they were being produced the Lyman cap and ball Remington revolvers were considered 'top shelf' hoglegs. I can't recall the years produced but they were on the market back in the early 70's when I started burning black. Always thought about getting one in 44 caliber but its listed as "one of the been gonna's".

Edit: Took a look in my old Black Powder Gun Digest of 1972. Lyman Navy 36-$95/Lyman Army 44-$97 suggested retail. 1974 Guns and Ammo Blackpowder Guide-Lyman Navy $96/Army$97. Did find a reference to Lymans being checked for DOB in 1970 and 1971 but no info when started and when end of production. Lyman sold excellent and highly regarded copies of a plains rifle back in the day also. One of them was also on the "been gonna" list once upon a time.

 

[M. De Land]

When they were being produced the Lyman cap and ball Remington revolvers were considered 'top shelf' hoglegs. I can't recall the years produced but they were on the market back in the early 70's when I started burning black. Always thought about getting one in 44 caliber but its listed as "one of the been gonna's".

I had a Lyman 58 in .44 cal in the early seventies and hunted some cotton tails on the farm in Michigan with it. I let it get away from me a few years later and eventually replaced it with a Pietta. The Lyman seemed the better revolver as I don't remember having to change anything about it but that was before the gun schooling I enrolled in which would have made me much more critical of deficiency's .
I do remember the Lyman had the traditional non adjustable Remington sights of the originals. The Pietta that replaced it had adjustable target sights that are now quite excellent with a few modifications.
I had to do a lot of work to bring the Pietta up to speed including making a new trigger of tool steel, line reaming the chambers, lapping tight spots in the barrel , installing an over travel screw, re-cutting the forcing cone and re-crowning.
It became my most accurate match pistol.
I don't remember the Lyman frame being any smaller though and it had the same length barrel as the Pietta.

 

[Pete453]

I've been told by someone I trust that's been around been muzzleloading for 50+ yrs, but can't verify. Apparently, with the early Remington copies the molds were taken directly from an original without adding material to account for casting shrink, and the guns came out 10ish% smaller. It would explain a lot, or could just be urban legend. Has anyone else heard this?

 

[Crow Choker]

Never hear of that Pete453. Replica Arms cap an balls were popular also back in the 70's. Recall aot of adverts for them. Believe if I recall Uberti made them for Replica.

 

[William P Sepessy]

Back at least 25 years ago I had a new Uberti 36 Remington and a Pietta 36 Remington. I remember thinking the Uberti looked smaller even though it had a longer barrel than the Pietta. I had just become interested in percussion pistols and was not well versed in the differences at the time.

 

[Urban Coyote]

Both Uberti guns.

Top revolver is a .36 and bottom a .44. Frame and grip sizes appear to be the same size.

I bought the .36 about 25 years ago used, the .44, also used, roughly 15 years ago.

 

[ZUG]

I've been told by someone I trust that's been around been muzzleloading for 50+ yrs, but can't verify. Apparently, with the early Remington copies the molds were taken directly from an original without adding material to account for casting shrink, and the guns came out 10ish% smaller. It would explain a lot, or could just be urban legend. Has anyone else heard this?

Yep - this is true. Early revolvers from the 50's and into the 60's (don't know when it changed) had smaller frames because of this shrinkage. !0% does not sound like much but you could feel the difference.

 

[Phil Coffins]

Here’s some numbers if someone wants to measure a 44 to compare with my old Uberti 36.
Cylinder is 2.19” long and 1.615” wide.
The frame measures 4.200” from front edge to the outside of the recoil shield when the gun is at full cock.

 

[springfield art]

PS - i truly dont know, but ive been told, the Lyman Uberti .36 6.5” were only made for a couple years, relatively rare, and were considered one of the top quality Uberti ever made. I have no clue if true. No idea. Ive had many offers to sell, nope, will pass to my son. Everyone say just shoot it. I cant. The Colt is my range piece. I love it. The Rem will sit on my dresser until it passrs to my son.
Like the guy said in Raiders, this watch is $10 but in a thousand years it will be priceless. Maybe many generations from now an unfired Rare Uberti .36 may pay to put a great great grandson thru college. Who knows, worth a shot.

Has your son said what his plans for it are?

 

[Jim in Wisconsin]

The original Remington navy had a cylinder that was 1/8 inch smaller in diameter, and the opening in the frame was narrower by that amount. The length of the cylinder was the same as the army. The loading ram was smaller (of course) and the hole in the frame for that too. The grip frame was the same as the army.
I wish there was an exact replica of the navy, but I don't think there ever was one made.

 

[Bad Karma]

I've been told by someone I trust that's been around been muzzleloading for 50+ yrs, but can't verify. Apparently, with the early Remington copies the molds were taken directly from an original without adding material to account for casting shrink, and the guns came out 10ish% smaller. It would explain a lot, or could just be urban legend. Has anyone else heard this?

I’d be very surprised to learn that there were existing tooling from the original Remington factory that survived a hundred years to be used in Italy. As far as I know the Italian manufacturers simply copied what they could easily source. In most cases, original Colts and Remingtons. Difference is size probably had more to do with manufacturing capabilities and measurements than anything else.
Comparing Pietta, Uberti, ASM, ASP, and Centaure copies of the 1860 Colt Army to an original Colt makes it pretty obvious that this is most likely the case.