Difference In Bags?

[tenngun]

This is just me thinking out loud, but if I was a longhunter, I'd want enough stuff on my person to survive in the event of the pack train running off or stolen by hostiles. That doesn't mean weeks of stuff but basics and that would mean a larger bag than many of the current crop of "possibles" bags that are barely large enough for my hand.

And that makes sense. However what do you ‘need’
Fire kit, belt axe, blanket or match coat, knife, shooting bag and horn.
Belt your riflemans shirt you have a ‘sinus’ to stuff your fire kit, and a bit of tobacco and pipe, a belt for your knife and axe, and your shooting kit at your side. Your blanket rolled on your back on a strap
Most of what I carry on a trek are creature comforts not needs. A pot, extra food as I can’t always hunt, camp stuff as I don’t want to build a natural shelter for me for just one night, cup, canteen, first aid kit, water pills, keys wallet,cell phone, house wife, candles, coffee, cup, extra stockings, a small book

 

[French Colonial]

From my reading most of the early long hunters traveled into Kentucky and Tennessee in large groups with pack horses and set up station camps, from there they would set out in different groups of two or three and in different directions and return to camp every couple of weeks or so with their hides and furs etc. After gathering what the horses could carry they returned to the east to sell their gatherings.
At times some would stay while the others went east and this was all predicated on the Indians not finding them and stealing everything, horses and guns included, which happened to Daniel Boone twice that I am aware of.

 

[Tradbow]

So what did the individual use when out for a scout of a month or so in the 1740-1790 time period? Being by himself I would imagine he wouldn’t want to leave much sign so he had to carry on his own doings on his person. This person wouldn’t be a long hunter as in the traditional thoughts of a group of hunters.

 

[smo]

I think most during that time traveled in pairs or small groups, for safety reasons if nothing else..

A single hunter would be at an extreme disadvantage… I would think.

 

[tenngun]

So what did the individual use when out for a scout of a month or so in the 1740-1790 time period? Being by himself I would imagine he wouldn’t want to leave much sign so he had to carry on his own doings on his person. This person wouldn’t be a long hunter as in the traditional thoughts of a group of hunters.

As above.
He may have some sort of kit in any sort of strapped bag, or just stuff in a rolled up blanket
As a civilian scout he may have been given a military knapsack or snapsack
I suspect such a fellow would have went very light. Jerky, maple sugar and parched corn would feed him, and he wouldn’t need cook. If warm he might avoid a fire.

 

[Coinneach]

My take on this is the possible and shooting bag are one in the same, just what you need to load the gun, balls, patches, powder measure, prime horn, patching material, small tin container of patch lube, bullet board (I know not documented) folding knife that sort of items, the haversack is for anything else you want to carry like a tool kit, fire kit perhaps a bag of extra balls, spare mocs, socks, first aid kit cell phone and food items, I also carry a copper nesting cook set small compact and the right size for me, believe it was purchased from Westminster Forge. That sort of items. The number of items depends on how long you plan to be out. So, it all depends on the individual and there wants and needs, I by nature am a minimalist. Shooting bag, main powder horn, belt knife, hatchet and as stated the rest is in the individual bags.

IMHO it varies on the individual, one vying for authenticity (eg the honourable Mark Baker) or "the Druthers" ; I have a foot in either camp as do many others.

 

[Coinneach]

A shooting bag is an accessory for a gun and carries what is needed to shoot the gun. (balls or shot, patches or wads, caps or spare flint)
A possibles bag is a personal accessory and carries whatever one thinks that they might "possibly" need - compass, snacks, spare socks, keys, sewing kit, gun cleaning gear, fire starter, the "possible" list is endless and varies greatly from one individual to the next.

A haversack traditionally is a military ration bag to carry one's personal issue of food.

The above notwithstanding, there are those that call their shooting bag a possibles bag which term possibly comes from some "mountain man" movies. There are also some who choose to use a very large bag to combine both their shooting needs and possible needs in one bag (which can make finding their shooting needs difficult to quickly get in hand). And while originating as a military ration bag, there are those (myself included) who use a haversack for their possibles (dang car keys have to go somewhere). On another personal note, I have a dedicated shooting bag for each of my long guns so there is never any confusion with showing up with the wrong size ball, flint or turnscrew. (besides, it is a good excuse to have multiple bags).

"I have a dedicated shooting bag for each of my long guns so there is never any confusion with showing up with the wrong size ball, flint or turnscrew."

That's the ideal for sure, my personal version is one Shooting bag per Calibre rather than Gun, as most everything (other than Balls) are pretty well common to each Gun of the same caliber.

 

[Coinneach]

@Brazos John ,

Thank you for your comments.

You make a very good point. I consider words to be artifacts. The words used by the 19th century frontiersmen were just as much a part of their lives as their traps, rifles, and knives. The words they used survive in the literature of their time, just as some of their rifles, traps, and knives survive in museums. It seems to me that if we want to understand how those fellows lived, we dress in clothes that were worn and shoot the guns that were used in their time and place. It seems only logical to use the words they used when any of us are with like-minded people.

I think this is probably most important for practitioners of "living history," meaning those who try to educate the public regarding the lives and times portrayed. The tents, the guns, the shirts, and the words used should be as much like the originals as can be.

Brother @tenngun pointed out that if you are with a knowledgeable group of mountain men, "possibles bag" will mark you as a greenhorn, or an outsider.

However, "possibles bag" has entered the vocabulary and has been accepted by a lot of blackpowder shooters. As a general rule, people don't like to be corrected, even if they are wrong. As Brazos John suggested, if you use the terms "shot pouch" and "bullet pouch" around shooters who don't know any better, they might very well misunderstand. Maybe use a neutral term, like "hunting pouch" when in that sort of crowd, or just "pouch." These terms showed up several times in the literature review, so they are authentic or "HC," even if they were not quite as common as "bullet pouch" or "shot pouch" were back in the day. I think most people will understand what "hunting pouch" means. I recall that author Madison Grant entitled one of his books The Kentucky Rifle Hunting Pouch, so maybe that set a sort of standard. However, when any of us have a chance to educate naive members of the public, I think we ought to introduce the documented, authentic terminology whenever possible. Again, words are artifacts of the time and place just as the material goods are.

As for myself, I'm happy with "shot pouch." I haven't researched the 18th century as much as the 19th, but from the reading I've done, "shot pouch" seems to have been used a lot, and it survived into the 19th century west. If somebody doesn't understand, I'm happy to explain.

However, like it or not, I suspect "possibles bag" is here to stay.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

Great post, thank you sir it seems we're kindred.

 

[Coinneach]

I don’t know what year this would be from.
When I got in to this sport Long hunters were always portrayed as on foot in the wilds. And of course a knowledgeable man can survive with little.
Today more has come to light about longhunters and the simple economics. They were there after a bulky end product. They just couldn’t carry that much back out of the woods. They had to have a means of packing.
And horses were they means
This is not to suggest they went with camp stoves, folding cots tables and chairs, and a marquee to put it all in, but they weren’t lugging all they needed to winter in Cain-tuck-ee on their backs.
Axes, shovels, extra lead and powder, housewife, some candles, a pot for the company, some extra blankets, chocolate, rum or whiskey, tobacco, extra moccs, casting kit, fishing kit. Bulk at least several pack horses worth for a small company, and they wanted enough hoofs to carry it out.

And three rather rough mannered sturdy frontier women to carry it all, because Horses are too valuable to waste on packing rather than riding.

 

[Coinneach]

Wow! I still have so much to learn. But I like it.

Believe me its a very rewarding journey, Welcome.

 

[dave951]

Having been a Civil War reenactor, I can appreciate the idea of authenticity but what I've also come to realize is that things happened that weren't written down or talked much about and anomolous types of gear will surface. Just as today, gear got modified and even odd stuff created to fill a need. That's what has me looking at what I read a "long hunter" bag would have been like. I've seen many of the modern interpretations of a "possibles" bag but to my eye, it's called that cuz it might be possible to put something in it if it's small. I'm wanting an authentically styled bag that is large enough for my hand that can carry all the extra stuff I would want on my person for a match but smaller than a military type haversack. Yeah, I still have that competition urge. The fun part about hanging out with my friends at the range, while it might not be planned, a match will usually happen complete with friendly smack talking.

 

[pilot]

If you're going to bring a housewife, you'll need quite a few more horses and some wagons. Those don't tote light.

 

[Coinneach]

This is just me thinking out loud, but if I was a longhunter, I'd want enough stuff on my person to survive in the event of the pack train running off or stolen by hostiles. That doesn't mean weeks of stuff but basics and that would mean a larger bag than many of the current crop of "possibles" bags that are barely large enough for my hand.

If you're going to bring a housewife, you'll need quite a few more horses and some wagons. Those don't tote light.

Especially them big sturdy Dutch galls from Pennsylvania

I assume he means Sewing kit, "House Wife" was the Army term when I served.

 

[pilot]

Okay, that's a new one on me. I was taking him literally.

 

[tenngun]

Okay, that's a new one on me. I was taking him literally.

 

[tenngun]

Mine is just a roll of leather

 

[Coinneach]

Mine is just a roll of leather

But is she a keeper ?

 

[appalichian hunter]

Bet she's a tough old gal.

 

[Coinneach]

Bet she's a tough old gal.

I kinda like the ones with leathery skin, hard to actually sleep with them but it makes for one helluva night !

 

[appalichian hunter]

Just like Teddy Roosevelt, genuine rough rider. Makes me think about kangaroos and 55-gal trash cans. Lock on and hang on.