Differences in Smooth Bore firearms

[tenngun]

Yea his FDC has a Colerain 44" 12 gauge .725 bore barrel, it originally had a 16 gauge barrel on it that was .665 bore but he decided to go bigger in 2014.

Wow

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Elaborating on the above excellent point. The British did not even bother "aiming" their Besses. They leveled them with the command of Present. These weapons were meant to be fired en masse at groups of men...not aimed individually. The balls essentially bounced down the barrel and where it bounced last was where it was going. If it hit the man next to the person you were "levelling" at...then so be it.

Eh?

Regarding the line infantry of the British Army
The general yearly allowance of Ball to a Regiment, when not on Service, being only four to each Man, the insufficiency of that number, for frequently practicing the Companies in firing at marks, [target practice] must be very obvious ; it will therefore be absolutely necessary, as these four Balls are scarcely enough, to answer the purposes mentioned Article of this Chapter, that molds and lead be provided for the Companies, in order to cast an additional quantity ; the experience of which is but trifling, if the Butts [targets] for firing at are fixed against a bank, from whence the Balls can easily be dug out by the Pioniers, and cast again.

…, that all cartridges may be exactly proportioned to the bore of the firelocks, a sufficient number of wooden formers, of a proper size, must likewise be provided…,

When a convenient place can be obtained for fixing up a butt [musket targets], the Companies should perform all the different firings with ball-cartridges once a month, it being the true method of training Soldiers to the use of arms, …

Regarding the Light Infantry of the British Army
Leaping, running, climbing precipices, swimming, skirmishing through woods, loading and firing in different attitudes at marks, [different firing positions used to shoot targets] and marching with remarkable rapidity, are the particular Exercises, to which these [Light Infantry] Companies should be trained…,
Cuthbertson, System, for the Complete Interior Management and Oeconomy of a Battalion of Infantry 1776

So in the above quotes from one of the widest known manuals for British officers, we note that the author clearly shows that the musket was used for accurate firing, and that the men practiced at it, with the desired time for such practice being once a month. In fact the officers need to take steps to increase the ammo used for the purpose, with the casting of additional ammunition. The Light Infantrymen even practiced various body positions when target shooting. PLUS we also see that the cartridges were made to fit the bore of the musket rather close.

The inaccuracy of The King's Musket, aka a Brown Bess, was from several variables, these being:
a) The musket was normally fired from a "standing, unsupported" position with a bayonet attached
b) The triggers on a musket tend to be heavy as it's not a hunting weapon
c) The British powder was inferior for the time period, and a lot of variation of velocity would happen
d) Under stress, the priming in the pan tends to be overdone, and thus the amount of the main charge varies from shot to shot
e) The ball really doesn't rattle down the barrel, it is simply in an inconsistent position for each loading
f) The time-lag from being given the order to "present" to being ordered to "fire" will directly influence the soldier's ability when standing-unsupported, to properly sight at his target, and properly pull the trigger.
g) If the lads are given enough time, the bayonet lug is rather huge and so a coarse point to use for aim

So why then, when a through f don't apply on a modern target range, is the accuracy still a bit off, compared to the hunting gun?
SEE e and g...., you need to develop a load that puts the ball into the same position each time. This is why folks that shoot closely fitted bare ball have the best accuracy, and use the same spot on the bayonet lug as your sighting point. Otherwise it's like trying to center a quarter on the end of a 2x4 piece of lumber ....

LD



PS...

As for the OP..., the Pedersoli Bess stock is notorious for being a bad fit. In fact Dunlap Woodcraft in Virginia sells pre-shaped stocks with "corrected" butts, for the Pedersoli Bess owner to restock his Bess with a better stock for shooting.

 

[tenngun]

Elaborating on the above excellent point. The British did not even bother "aiming" their Besses. They leveled them with the command of Present. These weapons were meant to be fired en masse at groups of men...not aimed individually. The balls essentially bounced down the barrel and where it bounced last was where it was going. If it hit the man next to the person you were "levelling" at...then so be it.

That happened when shooting far in a smoke covered field, but the did teach shooting at the mark with a bess.
Some think the gas blowing by the ball tends to keep it centered. Original bess cartridges could take charges as high as 240 grains
Larger charges in bes with bare ball is oft reported to shoot very well

 

[Jay Templin]

Remember that the Bess was not designed to be really ‘aimed’ as much as to be pointed. The Fusil on the other hand is a hunting gun and designed to be aimed.

The King’s Arm was absolutely intended to be aimed! This is why in the 18th century, the piece that most modern reenactors call the “bayonet lug” was actually called the “sight.” The instructions for the command “Present!” in the Manual of 1764 included “..raise up the Butt so high upon the right Shoulder, that you may not be obliged to stoop too much with the Head, the right Cheek to be close to the Butt, and the left Eye shut, and look along the Barrel with the right Eye from the Breech Pin to the Muzzel…” That’s aiming.
In 1774 at Boston, General Gage ordered “that the men be taught to take good aim, which if they do they will always level well.”
There’s an interesting article about the capabilities of the musket here:
How far is “musket-shot”? Farther than you think. - Journal of the American Revolution
Yes, the fusil is intended for hunting- that’s literally its name- but that’s more to do with its lighter weight and forward balance than any inherent superiority in accuracy.
Jay
Jay

 

[tenngun]

Some of it came from the conditions fired in. The British expected no less then four shots a min and able to keep that up for fifteen shots, three minutes and forty five seconds.
You just don’t have much time to aim.
Then if you do have even a squad shooting that fast you have a wall of fog anyway.
Then add to that that ‘if not exceeding poorly bored, as many of them are’ government contracts produce shoddy products.
Lastly about 10-20% of the population needs glasses. But were few and far between especially for enlisted

 

[Cruzatte]

Lastly about 10-20% of the population needs glasses. But were few and far between especially for enlisted

I've often wondered about that condition as it effected performance of one's duties in the military of the day. Indeed, it's often speculated that if Pierre Cruzatte had had glasses he might not have mistaken Lewis's buckskin clad arse for an elk.

 

[Irishmusket]

I have been shooting muskets for over 50 years especially the Brown Bess an original 3 rd model several Pedersoli s a moroko and several Indian made replicas.with a true understanding how these things were loaded in the Day.I do what they did you donot aim a musket you point a musket you shoot them like a shotgun not a rifle 81 grains of fg or ffg black powder .Use the same powder to prime 690 round ball no patch with wadding on top of the ball firmly seated on the charge. Will give fair but consistent accuracy it takes lots of practice.I have taken many Deer with this load at 40 /50 yards never had chase after it the heavy ball is much deadlier than a little 50 cal rifle ball .However a musket is not as accurate as Rifle and limited range you need to keep that in mind .

 

[FlinterNick]

I’ve got a few Bess’s at .77 and .75 And some Charlevilles at .72 and .69 and some lighter smoothbores at .66 and .62. My .62 with a .58 ball and .10 patch is extremely accurate at 70 yards, more accurate than any of the other guns I have.

The one thing I’ve found with my smoothbore is maintaining the bore quality. Cleaning, lubricating and occasionally polishing out the bore really has a major impact on quality and the accuracy of the gun.

 

[Artificer]

That happened when shooting far in a smoke covered field, but the did teach shooting at the mark with a bess.
Some think the gas blowing by the ball tends to keep it centered. Original bess cartridges could take charges as high as 240 grains
Larger charges in bes with bare ball is oft reported to shoot very well

PLEASE DO NOT USE THAT MUCH MODERN POWDER, EVEN IF YOU ARE USING A WAY UNDERSIZE .69 CALIBER BALL IN A PAPER CARTRIDGE!!!!!

The origin of that load was during the Revolutionary War when CROOKED English Powder suppliers were supplying really POOR powder and the powder was further harmed by Sea Water/Humidity during the voyage over here in the wooden sailing ships.

The ISSUE black powder load when they had GOOD powder was 165 grains and 15 to 20 or more grains were dumped in the priming pan BEFORE the rest of the powder was loaded into the bore.

Gus

 

[tenngun]

PLEASE DO NOT USE THAT MUCH MODERN POWDER, EVEN IF YOU ARE USING A WAY UNDERSIZE .69 CALIBER BALL IN A PAPER CARTRIDGE!!!!!

The origin of that load was during the Revolutionary War when CROOKED English Powder suppliers were supplying really POOR powder and the powder was further harmed by Sea Water/Humidity during the voyage over here in the wooden sailing ships.

The ISSUE black powder load when they had GOOD powder was 165 grains and 15 to 20 or more grains were dumped in the priming pan BEFORE the rest of the powder was loaded into the bore.

Gus

I’m sorry yes your right as I should have added that in my post, my bad.

 

[JCKelly]

I have read - not done it myself - that modern competitors with smooth-bore muskets do better when the balls have something like dimples on then. Don't understand aerodynamics, but I sure don't believe those dimples are there just for Pretty. Aerodynamic guys say they reduce drag, so the ball goes faster.
Don't ask this metallurgist to explain, look it up yourself.

 

[Whitworth]

I have read - not done it myself - that modern competitors with smooth-bore muskets do better when the balls have something like dimples on then. Don't understand aerodynamics, but I sure don't believe those dimples are there just for Pretty. Aerodynamic guys say they reduce drag, so the ball goes faster.
Don't ask this metallurgist to explain, look it up yourself.

A golf ball like musket ball would be an interesting experiment. making the mold might be a challenge. The dimples provide a bit of aerodynamic lift when the golf ball is spun by the air it passes thru. YMMV

 

[tenngun]

People that love them love them, people that aren’t impressed aren’t impressed. I’ve seen a lot of you tube vids but none seem to show improved shooting.