Do I really need to lube my balls?

[nick_1]

contrary to what you guys are saying about nipples I actually experienced several chain fires when I was a teenager. once I got all six off in one shot. It was absolutly from loading real BP as much as I could get in the chamber and still have the cylinder turn with the ball seated and then forgetting to lube. back then i used vasaline because thats what the guy at the gun store told me to use. 1977 ish.. that was my standard load and it only chain fired the few times I forgot to lube. lead smeared all over the barrel and loading lever. rather exciting.

 

[Bad Karma]

I’ve had two chain fires in 60 years of blackpowder use in cap revolvers. Both occurred from the same gun, same day. It was a Shooter’s Model Pietta with factory chambers at .456” they recommended using .465” ball. I loaded 30 grains of 3f Swiss under the balls and first shot it chain fired. I fired the remaining four chambers, reloaded and had my second chain fire. Cleaned it and put it away until I sourced some .465 balls from track of the wolf. That was maybe 8 or 9 years ago and I haven’t had another chain fire. (I’m using blackpowder nearly exclusively and if I load ball I don’t use any lube.)

I have to say, the chain fires were kind of … underwhelming. A small smear of lead and an extra loud report.

 

[nick_1]

I think the several times i had it happen it was because of overloading. Curently 454 balls and 25g of 37 is not going to give me any troubble and I have shot it without lube several times with no issues.

 

[TrapperDude]

I think the several times i had it happen it was because of overloading. Curently 454 balls and 25g of 37 is not going to give me any troubble and I have shot it without lube several times with no issues.

You're right. Leaving out the lube won't cause chain fires. As long as you have tight-fitting balls and pour your powder without slopping it all over so it gets entrained between the ball and chamber wall, you're good to go.

 

[Stantheman86]

I have never heard of a chain fire in a cartridge revolver, leading me to believe that a bullet sitting even with the cylinder face, in a brass cartridge is as fire proof as a tightly fitted lead ball or bullet in a chamber of a percussion revolver. Leaving loose powder on the cylinder face may actually be able to get a flame past the ball under the right circumstances I imagine if the powder is stuck to the chamber walls above the ball and basically is igniting 5 or 10 grains of powder above the ball.

I feel that loose caps and sloppy chambers with poorly fitted balls are the main culprit

 

[TrapperDude]

I have never heard of a chain fire in a cartridge revolver, leading me to believe that a bullet sitting even with the cylinder face, in a brass cartridge is as fire proof as a tightly fitted lead ball or bullet in a chamber of a percussion revolver. Leaving loose powder on the cylinder face may actually be able to get a flame past the ball under the right circumstances I imagine if the powder is stuck to the chamber walls above the ball and basically is igniting 5 or 10 grains of powder above the ball.

I feel that loose caps and sloppy chambers with poorly fitted balls are the main culprit

The guy who wrote this article on preventing chain fires, among other black powder subjects, experimented to cause chain fires. Loose caps did not once cause chain fires when he intentionally used them extensively to try initiating them.

Throughout his testing, the one thing he found in common with chain fires he could cause was powder getting crushed between the ball and chamber wall. He diagramming what happens here:

The rest of the article is at this link:

http://geojohn.org/BlackPowder/bps2Mobile.html
It's a really interesting read, as are the rest of his articles on black powder shooting.

 

[Stantheman86]

The guy who wrote this article on preventing chain fires, among other black powder subjects, experimented to cause chain fires. Loose caps did not once cause chain fires when he intentionally used them extensively to try initiating them.

Throughout his testing, the one thing he found in common with chain fires he could cause was powder getting crushed between the ball and chamber wall. He diagramming what happens here:
View attachment 169804
The rest of the article is at this link:

http://geojohn.org/BlackPowder/bps2Mobile.html
It's a really interesting read, as are the rest of his articles on black powder shooting.

This is probably the best explanation of Chain Fire I've seen and it makes perfect sense

I wonder if chain fires were far less common in the original period when nitrate cartridges were used. Maybe we see more chain fires in recent history because most people load with loose powder

 

[TrapperDude]

This is probably the best explanation of Chain Fire I've seen and it makes perfect sense

I wonder if chain fires were far less common in the original period when nitrate cartridges were used. Maybe we see more chain fires in recent history because most people load with loose powder

Yeah, I would think the use of those paper cartridges helped prevent powder from getting where it wasn't supposed to be. From what Geojohn was saying, too, it sounds like people weren't lubing their slugs much because they didn't typically fire quite as many rounds through a pistol as we do on the range.

I would be curious to hear about historical accounts of chain fire frequency back in the day.

 

[Stantheman86]

Yeah, I would think the use of those paper cartridges helped prevent powder from getting where it wasn't supposed to be. From what Geojohn was saying, too, it sounds like people weren't lubing their slugs much because they didn't typically fire quite as many rounds through a pistol as we do on the range.

I would be curious to hear about historical accounts of chain fire frequency back in the day.

I'd bet the Officers or enlisted men who carried revolvers in the war probably only carried 3 or 4 packs of cartridges.

We shoot these guns more today than they did back then, for the most part. Except for guys like Wild Bill, most people weren't shooting 50+ rounds in a session like we do

The only chain fires I recall reading about were the Colt revolving rifle, which was prone to them. I have read about revolvers binding up, in letters home or books written by Veterans but no mention of chain fires that I've seen

 

[TrapperDude]

I'd bet the Officers or enlisted men who carried revolvers in the war probably only carried 3 or 4 packs of cartridges.

We shoot these guns more today than they did back then, for the most part. Except for guys like Wild Bill, most people weren't shooting 50+ rounds in a session like we do

Yep. That seems to be my understanding, too. Our range habits, nowadays, require quite a bit more disposable income and leisure time than your typical citizen would have had back then.

 

[nwtradegun]

You could remove the nipple and pack some black powder in there. Reinstall nipple cap and fire. That should blow out the patch and ball. Might have to repeat the process but it should work on the first go.

 

[Horse]

i had my first and only chain fire back in 1967. It was a brand new brass framed 51 navy I bought at a hardware shop in a small town. I dont recall the make. I got it along with a pound of Dupont powder and a brass bag mold which cast undersized lead projectiles of one round ball and one conical bullet. Got the whole shootin match including free chainfiring for the princely sum of 25 bucks.

 

[Mike in FL]

How has this thread maintained civility? It shows character in our members that someone did not make a crude comment about the title. I'm sure it is appreciated by all.

 

[FishDFly]

It is rare.

 

[Red Owl]

My view is that black powder is highly explosive and I believe "sucks in" moisture which may also include flames so you need a good, tight fit on the nipple and with the ball. I've spoken in the past of Robert E. Lee's Navy Colt. The ends were sealed with sealing wax and there was some type of similar thing on the nipples. As a General he probably felt he would never need to fire the gun so he sealed up good and tight.
My personal feeling is a chain fire can occur:
1. Loose caps that fall off from recoil, flame sucked into chamber.
2. Loose fitting ball
a. There is a gap or passage way that flames can pass into the chamber. The reason for the "ring on lead" seating the ball.
b. The recoil knocks a loose ball in adjoining center forward exposing the powder below it.
1. There is a disproportionate number of chain firings occurring with the first shots of the day. I've asked in the past if the gun had dry caps fired to burn off oil in the chamber before actual loading (or cleaned with rubbing alcohol, etc. Invariably no. So oil in the chamber and a loose fitting ball.
I live in a hot climate. Lube over the end of a chamber would be a mess to carry, so for me, powder, a lubed wad, the wad large enough to fill the chamber, and then a tight fitting ball and caps that fully and properly fit the nipples. About all you can do.

 

[Stantheman86]

How has this thread maintained civility? It shows character in our members that someone did not make a crude comment about the title. I'm sure it is appreciated by all.

I thought about it....

 

[TrapperDude]

I thought about it....

I think we all did...

 

[Horse]

I didn't. It was too easy

 

[nhmoose]

I have never had a chain fire and have shot C&B revolvers since high school and I am now 70. My balls always were big and cut rings, my caps always fit or the nipples got made to fit, greased over the balls or used a lubed wad under the ball.

Most likely get one next time a shoot one. way it seems to me, but I never hold my other hand in front of the cylinder either.

 

[gunpa]

That next one will get ya!