Do you know why the early Butt plates

[imray]

were shaped into such sharp and pointed and dangerous configurations? Some of the old butt plate shapes don't even look like they would fit a mans shoulder, more like a double headed spear type shoulder piece.
I have never researched this question but have often wondered what would possess these masters of the art to shape the shoulder rest, of these rifles, into such pointed piercing narrow menacing shape, knowing the mans life, and that of his entire family, depended on this piece of equipment.

 

[rabjr]

Welome!

Those butt plates are actually from the later muzzleloader era. Try placing the butt on the top of your bicep muscle. I don't think they were ment to be used like we in modern times shoulder guns.

 

[necchi]

Yup, they where made to fit around a mans upper arm not the shoulder.
Steadied better when shooting up into the trees for tree climbin critters. :wink:

 

[rich pierce]

I like the ideas above. Also, like tail fins on early 60's cars, may well have been fashion.

 

[imray]

I haven't used a forum where you respond to each response before. Do you guys usually just respond to each response, or the whole thread in general? I didn't see a button for response to the thread just each individual? Sorry, I'll learn??? best wishes, ray

 

[imray]

Thanks, Well that certainly makes alot of sense now that you say it, but I wouldn't have thought of it. I' don't own one with a butt plate like that or perhaps I might have stumbled upon it in use? I know the young fellas today are taught a whole new way of shouldering an m-16 than I was. New ways of using new technology I suppose, hell those m-16 don't have much kick anyway. I had always herd how an automatic climes when you shoot it, but mine could be held steady enough to cut a hole, and my m-60 could hit any deer, if you could see it, you could shoot it. Now mind you I don't live where you can see MT McKinney from 80 mi, either. I'm just talking a couple miles with phos. rounds.
I find it far more soothing to shoot muzzleloaders, though, theres just a slow smooth organized relaxing feel to it. Kinda like mental therapy. with a little smoke and fire involved.best wishes, ray

 

[rich pierce]

I haven't used a forum where you respond to each response before. Do you guys usually just respond to each response, or the whole thread in general? I didn't see a button for response to the thread just each individual? Sorry, I'll learn??? best wishes, ray

If you hit the "reply" to a specific post it notes that's who you're responding to. Most of the time I just tag on the end. If you notice this posts says I am responding to imray. That's because I hit the "reply" button just below your post.

 

[Zonie]

Welcome to the Forum.
I think you will be surprised at the number of helpful members we have here.

You've received some good answers, and I know you didn't exactly ask but you may be interested about early vs late butt plates.

Most rifles made prior to 1800 had wide, very slightly curved buttplates. This style goes back into the 1600's and earlier. It includes the rifles common during the Revolutionary war.

Following the Revolutionary war the width of the butt plates became narrower but the gentle curve was still popular.

In the early 1800's this narrowing continued and the curvature became more pronounced.
By the 1830's the deep curved butt plates were fairly common and this trend seems to have continued past the Civil War and into the late 1800's.

I must add that not all of the rifles made during the 1800's had these deep narrow butt plates.
The guns made in Bedford, Pennsylvania (and a few other towns) maintained fairly light curvatures and the fancy patchboxes of the early years well into the percussion era.

Anyway, as was posted by the others, these narrow, deeply curved butt plates were intended to be shot "off the arm" rather than off the shoulder.

 

[dyemaker]

What I don't understand is the butts of some wheelock and matchlock guns I've seen. I assume some were not fired from the shoulder. I was just watching Japanese matchlocks being fired on youtube. They were not shouldered. Of course there are no buttplates.
http://wn.com/japanese_matchlock_demonstation

 

[dyemaker]

I think that the severely curved ridiculous looking buttplates were primarily used in target rifles. Swiss rifles are like this and even some special edition breechloading metallic cartridge target rifles had those buttplates.

 

[David W.]

I think one has to take into account too, that people were more boney back then. No McDonnalds or Burger Kings!

 

[dyemaker]

I think (I'm not sure) the Swiss type buttplates served to add consistancy to the shouldering of rifles in a prone or kneeling position. Of course they do look fashionable. Here is something I "gleened" on development of butt shapes. Part of this site was posted here. Unfortunately it cannot be translated because it is a pdf file. The site is really cool! These are simple line drawings. It isn't too hard to decipher the text.

http://www.feuerwaffen.ch/pdf/Gewehrschaft.pdf

 

[Zonie]

I think you may be referring to the hooked butt plates like my Schutzen has?

These are designed to hook under the arm pit to provide support. They are often quite heavy too.

The weight helps balance the gun and the curve is actually very comfortable.

 

[dyemaker]

There's your answer imray. The hooked buttplates serve to add consistancy by providing support thus reducing fatigue in offhand and kneeling postion target shooting.