Does Anybody Know What This Is?

[CBinNh]

Hello all, noob here. A family friend is settling her late brothers estate & has this pistol & flask. Is it real or an old repro? Any collector value? Any thoughts appreciated.

The flask has "J W Hawksley Sheffield" on the spout.

 

[Mulebrain]

I sure looks old to me!

What is the writing on the lock plate, and barrel? That info will really go along way to establishing origin, and the builders!

I am sure many more knowledgeable folks will chime in soon!

Very Nice!

 

[44-henry]

That's the real deal and it looks to be in nice untouched condition, please try to make sure it stays that way.

I have no idea about the value of it, I have seen similar guns go upwards of $1000 and more, but a lot depends on the maker. It is a nice pistol all the same.

 

[Mulebrain]

This may help some

 

[Zonie]

G. & J.W.Hawksley Ltd was an English firm who manufactured powder flasks from 1845 until 1947 in Smithfield, England when they were bought by the Dixon company.

In the book "The Powder Flask Book" by Ray Riling he classifies your flask as a "Medallion Flask" because the picture is in that shape.

I can't give you a date for your flasks manufacture but it was very likely in the mid 1800's.

I also cannot give an estimate of its value because when all is said and done it is worth what someone who collects flasks would pay.
I would guess that it would be in the $200 range.

The pistol does look to be a real antique.
As flintlocks in general lost favor to the Percussion ignition system in the late 1820's I would guess that the gun was made prior to 1840.

This is just a guess and in many parts of the world Flintlocks were made much later than that.

As to its value, it also depends on the buyer.
It could range from $300 to $800.
If it could be linked to an American gunsmith the value would be far higher but the markings on the barrel indicate to me that it was made overseas.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

The lock appears to be of a later style than the rest of the piece--the pan certainly seems to be. The barrel is likely Iberian and probably Spanish as Dias in Portuguese would be Diaz. Over all stock shape is older than you would expect given that lock. It could be an honest antique made up with a used barrel and a new lock. There's always a danger in trying to date and price a piece from photos. It could also be one of those well made European or New England fakes that showed up and infiltrated the market so successfully many years ago. You can still buy a new made Hawksley flask today still made in England and a great accessory for a fowler. That one is an antique and seems a bit large for that pistol.

 

[JV Puleo]

The pistol looks Balkan or Turkish to me... Greece, Macedonia, the Agean shore of Turkey etc. Flintlocks hung on a long time there, well into the 20th century because the Ottoman Government resisted allowing the locals being armed with anything newer. I'd guess its between 1800 and 1840 even though the lock shape suggests a date in the late 17th-early 18th century. But, that is a pure guess. These areas were strongly influenced by the styles of the first European arms they received and preserved the forms until the very end, long after they were out of style in Europe. North African snaphaunce locks are another similar example.

Huge numbers of "tourist junk" pistols were and are still being made in that area so its hard to tell from the pictures if this is a real one or a decorative one. I think its a real one. The late Robt. Ables, Theodore Dexter and others often had them in their catalogs so it could have been sold here anytime from the mid-20s on. Its not terribly valuable, maybe a few hundred dollars but that only if you can find a buyer. They were considered exotic in the early days of collecting and brought more money then they do now. I don't think there are any serious collectors of them. So little is known about them and there was so much pure junk mixed in that there is very little interest in them.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

That pan is of the later open type isn't it? The frizzen bridle is seperate from the pan and the guard too is seperate. It also appears to have Spanish words on the barrel. That could be faked though. The stock style fits neither lock nor barrel. Really would like to see it in person, but I think your price is right on.

 

[CBinNh]

Thank you all for the help.

 

[JV Puleo]

You're right Russ. It has an odd mixture of early and late features which is why I vote for a relatively late date. I don't think we can apply the same "feature dating" techniques we're all accustomed to in a case like this. I wouldn't be surprised if the "writing" is gibberish put there by a maker who was completely illiterate or at least illiterate in the language it is supposed to represent. A Turkish pistol with a fake "Italian" barrel comes to mind. It worked both ways - lots of middle 18th to early 19th century swords have squiggle writing on the blades that is fake Arabic.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

flint hammer looks way too new and the frizzen is a 17th century style, My vote is Khyber special.

Afghanis have been banging the stuff out for western tourists for a hundred years.

 

[pichou]

Tourist piece would be a good bet. It is made to look fancy, but the workmanship is poor. Hang it on the wall... that's probably what it was meant for. Sorry. :v

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

I think I'd hang it on my wall and tell folks that one of my ancestors was a pirate! Maybe tell a tale of buried treasure and dead men's chests.

 

[Mike Brooks]

Spanish made for the Mediterranean trade area. Possibly as late as the 1870's These are starting to become collectible, price it $400 to $700 these days as it is in fairly good shape for one of these.

 

[Mike Brooks]

Ah, Turkish sounds good too! :haha: :thumbsup: