Does anyone recognize this lock?

[44Bro]

One more Q,,,is the lock square with the world, or is it slightly tipped in at the bottom. A small shim at the bottom will have a large effect at the hammer.

 

[.36Rooster]

One more Q,,,is the lock square with the world, or is it slightly tipped in at the bottom. A small shim at the bottom will have a large effect at the hammer.

Now that's an idea I haven't thought of yet. That might actually work. Thanks.

 

[TrapperPete]

I was thinking shims also , figure out what it takes to make it right , then a little epoxy and glue the shim in or epoxy bed the lock

I have had locks were the wood must have shrunk after the initial in-letting , if you tighten the screws too much it made the hammer contact wood , back off a turn and it was good

not something we think of in ML much but , in modern guns we know tightening action screws too much can crush the wood grain. more than about 25 inch pounds starts to crush the wood.

 

[44Bro]

I'd start with a flat toothpick. Probably won't need much more.

 

[toot]

View attachment 60580
This is a lock I'm altering to fit the stock and barrel on this gun I picked up, since it doesn't fit well.

The lock is obviously a knock off of one of the old historic warranted locks, but does anyone know the company that made this one, and/or the model?

I am looking to heat and bend this hammer slightly, and would like to locate a replacement part in case I ruin the hammer my first try.

I've been drawing a blank on the company name for 2 weeks. And no online searches are turning up any results.

Also, does anyone possibly have an extra hammer for one?

it doesnt' look like a rely bad fit!!?

 

[toot]

Well it wouldn't really help much. It's a .50 caliber stock for sure, I can tell that much because the ramrod for the .36 caliber barrel slides out when you tip the gun south of horizontal. So had to install a spring catch to put tension on it. The hammer was not built for this barrel for sure. Just doesn't line up with the nipple. But such an accurate rifle, I figured I could do something for it. It's a squirrel killer for sure. Just needs one last thing fixed.

The lock and stock may have actually been mates though. But its hard to tell I know nothing of the guns history before it was in my hands, other than coming from a basement build somewhere along the lines: that much was obvious since the guy drilled holes in barrel for stock keys instead of dovetailing and ordering the proper pieces.

I'm a really big squirrel hunter and am hoping to make this gun into an accurate rifle that I can hunt a lot with and not worry about banging up.
View attachment 61176

Dern thing shoots good for sure, when it does go off. Just this damn hammer not landing square.

I would dremmel it out as suggested, but I would like to find a replacement hammer and try bending first. And dremmel as a last resort. It's off center enough that I just don't have much metal to dremmel out. Bending is actually a better option. Just need to find out the company and model number of lock so I can start searching the auctions online every couple weeks.

OK! do the feet / toes come with it?

 

[BEP]

Your rifle, recognized from the full length picture posted, is a Hopkins & Allen Minuteman. I own one, that's why I earlier asked you to show pictures of the lock internals. They came in .36 and .45 (actually .44) caliber. Both barrels measure just a smidge under an inch across the flats. The .45 is a heavy rifle. The .36 is a really heavy rifle. They were a pretty well made production gun but were also sold in kit form. The kits were nowhere near a 95% finished kit but required a fair amount of work. Some were done better than others, depending on the skill of the buyer. As stated earlier, I have one today but my first one was bought around 1972 or so as a finished rifle. Actually, I first bought a kit from Sarco but upon examining it I decided it was not a project that I was skilled enough to complete. Sarco was gracious enough to take it back and then ship me a completed gun.

If I were you, I'd work on the lock mortise, as suggested by previous posters. A simple shim can correct a long-standing problem. They were - and are today - accurate rifles.

 

[.36Rooster]

I think that is the rifle. I had known the barrel came from the obsolete gun parts company numerich arms. As it has a stamp, but it appears they distributed the kit.

Now that I know the name I was easily able to look up parts for the lock on their site as well. I think I will now try shimming as discussed earlier though.

Thanks!

I suspect this stock was their .45 caliber model then and the .36 barrel was installed later. I'm assuming that because the stock is drilled and has hardware for a 3/8" ramrod which is much too big for the .36 barrel, which requires the smaller 5/16". But the 5/16" that I ordered drops right out of the stock when you tip the gun. Unless the maker just neglected to install the catch. (I fished a rolled up piece of paper from the stock that the guy had been using to hold a broken 5/16" ramrod in place).

Let me ask you, how does the barrel on your rifle accept the stock keys? This barrel has holes that appear to have been drilled at home. Are yours dovetailed?

Yes, quite heavy. That's the only part I dont like. But if I place my left hand at trigger guard and allow my shoulder to keep the gun from tipping, it sights very stable offhand. The curved buttplate helps for this.

 

[ohio ramrod]

Have you checked the nipple? The nipple needs a "sharp" top. If the nipple has a flat top the caps will not fire properly, If the nipple is too large the caps need to be forced down further to fire which could be why it fires on the second or third try.

 

[BEP]

I think that is the rifle. I had known the barrel came from the obsolete gun parts company numerich arms. As it has a stamp, but it appears they distributed the kit.

Now that I know the name I was easily able to look up parts for the lock on their site as well. I think I will now try shimming as discussed earlier though.

Thanks!

I suspect this stock was their .45 caliber model then and the .36 barrel was installed later. I'm assuming that because the stock is drilled and has hardware for a 3/8" ramrod which is much too big for the .36 barrel, which requires the smaller 5/16". But the 5/16" that I ordered drops right out of the stock when you tip the gun. Unless the maker just neglected to install the catch. (I fished a rolled up piece of paper from the stock that the guy had been using to hold a broken 5/16" ramrod in place).

Let me ask you, how does the barrel on your rifle accept the stock keys? This barrel has holes that appear to have been drilled at home. Are yours dovetailed?

Yes, quite heavy. That's the only part I dont like. But if I place my left hand at trigger guard and allow my shoulder to keep the gun from tipping, it sights very stable offhand. The curved buttplate helps for this.

The barrel is secured with pins that actually pass through the bottom of the barrel - those holes had to be drilled using a jig of some kind. No dovetailed anything. No stock keys.

 

[44Bro]

Your rifle, recognized from the full length picture posted, is a Hopkins & Allen Minuteman.

I knew there was an H in the name.

 

[Eddie2002]

Shimming the bottom edge of the lock will correct the right to left problem of the hammer hitting the nipple. You don't need to bend the hammer to get rid of the space between the nipple and hammer. If you take the hammer off the lock and look at it's backside there should be a little blob of weld or metal that acts as a stop against the lock plate. File a little off that blob or stop where it hits the lock plate and check the clearance between the hammer and nipple. It shouldn't take much to close the gap. Filing the stop allows the hammer to move down further in it's swing which sounds like is your problem.
I converted a crappy 60's flint lock over to a cap lock last year and had to make a new hammer which is where I found out about the welded stop on the back of the hammer. Hope this helps

 

[.36Rooster]

Guys, so I shimmed with a toothpick, and screwed it back up. Definite improvement but not quite to center yet. I also screwed it up again so that bottom of lockplate was on outside of stock. The screws barely caught on that try.

I will try snapping a few caps next time I go out. It might work now..

I don't really know the neighbor here at this new place, so don't want to risk a fuss, or else I'd try now, even though I'm sure it wouldn't be a problem.

 

[.36Rooster]

I'd say worst case scenario is I'd have to bend the hammer by much less.

I checked, and there is no "blob/stop", Eddie, however you did give me an idea. The hammer is soft metal and I could certainly file the inside rubbing surface 1/16" inch and tighten the screw down farther and shorten the screw if it bottoms out.

First I will try shimming in other places to see if I can get more adjustmentout of the same toothpick.

You guys are great!

 

[.36Rooster]

Man. I can physically flex hammer into alignment. Just now thought that if put a washer on outside of hammer and tighten down screw would make the rest of the difference but it doesn't.

I dont think the shims are going to do it on their own though. But there is a rub mark on inside of hammer from lock.. let's just say I used that as a template and filed down 1/32" at a time. If it doesn't snap caps the way it is now, then that ought to bring it the rest of the way, right? I don't see why it wouldn't, and certainly safer than heating bending? Hammer appears 3/16" wide. So if I went 1/16", it would still leave 1/8", which is plenty of steel.

If someone knows better, I hope they'll chime in, because I sure don't...

 

[Walkingeagle]

Can you remove wood from the top side of the lock mortise to lean it more towards the barrel? Likely will have to remove from within to prevent rubbing as well.
Walk

 

[.36Rooster]

It seemed like the giant thick barrel is the problem. Not the wood. I will double check tonight and get back with you

 

[BEP]

Here's a thought - Since it's a drum & nipple setup, why not just buy another drum blank from someone like Track of the Wolf and install a nipple where it'll work properly?

 

[poker]

Maybe put the drum in a lathe and cut a little more threads. Take off a similar amount from the threaded end so cleaning isnt affected.

 

[.36Rooster]

Well guys, I may have to do that, but it would be using some tools I don't have. I'd have to locate a gunsmith who I trust with blackpowder implements.