Does anyone recognize this lock?

[poker]

Any actual machinist could handle that. Provided they went slow and checked as they went. You would need to keep your timing correct. An alternative would be to get a blank drum from TOW and drill it where it counts.

 

[Eddie2002]

Start with the easy stuff before going to a machinist. There are some heavy rub marks on the stock from the hammer, sand the stock down till the hammer doesn't rub. That probably is the reason the hammer is off to the right or left on the nipple. The hammer is getting pushed out of alignment where it's rubbing on the wood. Don't over analyze it, fix the simple stuff first.

Every lock I've worked on and looked at has some sort of stop on the back side of the hammer leg to prevent it from going too far down when the lock is off the firearm. Sometimes it is a blob of weld as I mentioned before, other times it's built in and is where the leg of the hammer goes from round to flat. A little filing on it will move the hammer down farther in it's strike position and hit the nipple properly.

You might be able to buy a nipple with a longer cone to take up the clearance but I wouldn't know where to look.

From the looks of the pictures that rifle only needs some minor tuning to shoot and trying to change out or modify the drum will just give you more grief and could wreck everything if not done properly.

A picture of the back of the lock would be helpful.

 

[.36Rooster]

Start with the easy stuff before going to a machinist. There are some heavy rub marks on the stock from the hammer, sand the stock down till the hammer doesn't rub. That probably is the reason the hammer is off to the right or left on the nipple. The hammer is getting pushed out of alignment where it's rubbing on the wood. Don't over analyze it, fix the simple stuff first.

Every lock I've worked on and looked at has some sort of stop on the back side of the hammer leg to prevent it from going too far down when the lock is off the firearm. Sometimes it is a blob of weld as I mentioned before, other times it's built in and is where the leg of the hammer goes from round to flat. A little filing on it will move the hammer down farther in it's strike position and hit the nipple properly.

You might be able to buy a nipple with a longer cone to take up the clearance but I wouldn't know where to look.

From the looks of the pictures that rifle only needs some minor tuning to shoot and trying to change out or modify the drum will just give you more grief and could wreck everything if not done properly.

A picture of the back of the lock would be helpful.

Hey, I am pretty certain there is currently no rubbing of hammer on stock throughout its entire range of motion. I will double check for sure once am off work in morning so we can get to the bottom of this. I DO see the rub marks you're referring to. So let me check again.

In addition, I also see a mark where the hammer was put on backwards and cocked back, marring the strike plate and stock in a circular fashion. Obviously someone has attempted to do work on this lock at some in the past. Perhaps that is when it was rubbing.

 

[.36Rooster]

Look you guys are being so helpful, tomorrow morning after work I will take some pictures of different angles from inside and outside, so we can all inspect the lock according to our suspicions, and hopefully get to the bottom of it and fix the problem.

I will pull the hammer off too and get a picture of its backside to see if there is a blob.

I will be working back to back 12's and have the week off starting Thursday so hopefully we will have figured it out by then so I'll have time to work on it.

I really appreciate everyone's help.

 

[.36Rooster]

Alright guys here's a few pictures of different parts from different angles. I guess a piece of toothpick fell into lock. Didn't realize that until after the picture.

 

[Eddie2002]

Thanks for the pictures and you are right there isn't a stop on the hammer, first time I've seen a hammer like that. I expected that the rub mark was caused by the stop on the hammer but the pictures proved me wrong. Not sure what your next step is.
Guess gently bending the hammer in and down is the next option. A propane torch should be hot enough.

 

[simonbeans]

I'd also replace the nipple. It looks a little beat up. Also it may be just the photo, but the wood on the stock when the hammer passes, appears to be scrapped somewhat, which indicates the hammer might really be too tight against the stock. A carefully modified washer with hole cut into a square, fitted between the hammer and lock plate, might fix your problem.

 

[.36Rooster]

I'd also replace the nipple. It looks a little beat up. Also it may be just the photo, but the wood on the stock when the hammer passes, appears to be scrapped somewhat, which indicates the hammer might really be too tight against the stock. A carefully modified washer with hole cut into a square, fitted between the hammer and lock plate, might fix your problem.

Actually I'm thinking the last guy must have fixed the rub..

If you look in two of the pictures from above, you can see fresh air between wood and hammer at full cock and letdown. In fact,, I purposely held my finger on other side so the color would show through the gap to illustrate.

 

[.36Rooster]

Well guys, I'm starting my 4 days of from work and the temperatures are in the negatives, so I'm hoping to get this project figured out and finished.

Anyone want to take a stab?

 

[Grenadier1758]

One thing I see @.36Rooster, is that the hammer is peened on the inside. Perhaps it was loose on the tumbler?

The hammer does appear to be close to wood of the stock and there is no real gap between the lock plate and the barrel.

The following procedure will take some metal off the rear bolster of your lock where the bolster contacts the barrel.

Take no more than 1/32" off the circled bolster. You may have to take some wood off the rim of the lock mortise to pull the lock in further. It won't take much to pull the hammer strike to the left and more centered on the nipple.

It will probably be simpler to heat the hammer and twist the hammer to strike center on the nipple.

 

[.36Rooster]

@.36Rooster, is that the hammer is peened on the inside. Perhaps it was loose on the tumbler?

View attachment 62019

Yes, i think that's right, and would explain why it fits so tight. It has to be carefully pried off to remove the hammer. I think some of the scratch marks on lock plate must be from the last owner prying it off with a screw driver.

 

[.36Rooster]

One thing I see @.36Rooster,

It will probably be simpler to heat the hammer and twist the hammer to strike center on the nipple.

Sorry, just to be clear, do you mean it will be simpler, or won't be? It sounded like you were emphasizing filing the bolster. Not sure if that last sentence was a typo or not.

 

[Grenadier1758]

I will take one action. Heat the neck of the hammer to red and bend the hammer to center the nose of the hammer over the nipple. Relatively easy to do with the hammer in a vise and a propane torch. This was the preferred method in a Black Powder Gunsmithing book from the 1970's. I remember posting the information a couple of years ago on the forum.

Removing drum | The Muzzleloading Forum

It is also an alternative modification to take a little off the bolster. The lock appears to be fully set in the lock mortise so getting the lock plate to fit may mean that wood will have to be removed so the nose of the hammer can move toward centering the hammer over the nipple. I am thinking that that subtle change in the lock plate may involve filing wood off the lock panels and then having to match the stain.

 

[.36Rooster]

I think that is the simplest approach. But with this hammer being so cheap of metal and numerich having replacement hammers out of stock, I am terrified I might break the hammer and end up with a worse problem.

I do have a good deal of experience with filing and woodworking and staining, however. I'm just just not comfortable with bending.

You put some ideas in my head, and after taking another look, I realized the hammer was peened incorrectly: Two of the opposing peens are too tight, the other two are too loose, creating a pivot point, and a bit of play. I think I can correct that, and gain a tiny bit of alignment. Then, by filing a bit off the bolster and deepening the inletting a hair, I can gain more, and a shim at bottom of lockplate will gain the rest. If I need to take a bit of stock off for hammer clearance, I can do so. I love staining wood, and can match it without much trouble.

Its definitely more work, but its the type of work I'm comfortable with, and I know if I try to bend that hammer without having a spare one, I have a high chance of ending up with a worse problem due to ignorance of how to do it.

Thanks,

 

[Grenadier1758]

You shouldn't need much to get that hammer in alignment. Not having the rifle in hand and the lock parts, I couldn't really see if the lock was fully set in the mortise or if the hammer needed some more work on tightening the hammer on the tumbler square post. I was thinking possibly a tiny bit of file work on the front edge and another strike with the center punch on the loose face might give you that tinny bit of alignment that you need.

 

[.36Rooster]

The hammer does jiggle in my hand because of the pivot point, but it seems to be more of a "corner-to-corner" jiggle and hence does not result in much of an alignment change when I move it with my hands.

I was thinking of filing bolster/deepening the upper inletting first; then shimming if I need it. I'll do it minutely, and assess, and then do a second round of each if I need it. I will probably correct the peening after first or second round, since the corner-to-corner wiggle amounts to very little (almost negligible) left-to-right adjustment, but actually, might still do a little to improve ignition... or at the very least, least should be done as a matter of principle. Nothing should be wiggling, even though the gun is firing...

 

[.36Rooster]

Right now im just going to spend the night checking my logic and anticipating things that might go wrong, and will probably give it a try tomorrow night after stewing a bit on it.

But hey, if anyone thinks it's the wrong approach, or knows more than I do, please step in and tell me. I am not stubborn, just want to give this rifle some the potential it has. I will listen. Maybe I am completely wrong. So please tell me.

 

[cvco]

Since I take it this is repro anyway, why not buy and bed a complete new set?

And Im not trying to be stupid but how about try image search in Firefox?

 

[.36Rooster]

Well, you're right, of course, but was hoping to get it done with what I have during the cold spell this weekend. Only about 3 weeks of squirrel season left. But that is definitely a possibility for this summer! Unless, you think an entirely new lock, asap ,would be absolutely necessary. Otherwise, I would like to hold off and earn a few squirrels with this one before season closes.

You're right though,

 

[Eddie2002]

Sounds like you have a good plan to correct the misalignment, little changes at the right spots is the way to go. Someone earlier mentioned that the nipple is mushroomed which will cause misfires so while you are letting the stain dry clean it up with a file. I've had a lot of misfires from nipples that were deformed because of dry firings and a cleanup with a file made a world of difference. Luck with it.