Doglock New England Fowler Cookson India Made

[German Jäger]

Hello,
Here in Germany we have a Gunshop that offers the India Made Doglock Fowler New England Cookson Style.
I have slso the Ketland Smoothbore Trage Gun it was not so bad ok the Finish and Stock MUST reworked but then it is ok.
But now the Fowler Stock was very massiv and thick and i want to slim it down.
Have anyone here do this before an can give me dome Information about this Idea?!

Please let me know if one of yours have this Fowler in use!
Thank you

 

[tenngun]

I’ve looked at it and thought of buying it.
I don’t have any fears of an India made gun, though I think I could expect doing some modifications to it

 

[German Jäger]

I think also but mods you think at this?!

 

[Grenadier1758]

I believe that any smoothbore bought for the purpose of shooting must pass proof testing. Once passed the proof testing, then the Cookson Fowling gun should be safe. In general thinking here on the Forum, is that all the India made firearms will need some work to finish them into a pleasant to shoot gun. Trigger work, lock polishing and stock refinement seem to be common issues with the India manufactured guns.

Now, what is to be done with all that excess wood.

The best way to proceed with getting this fowling gun slimmed down to meet your desire to have a slim and lively handling fowling gun is to treat this as an assembled, but not completed kit gun. We call this kind of gun as in-the-white as the gun is complete and could be fired but not yet finished for use.

The gun will have to be completely taken apart so you can remove the excess wood and refinish the stock. The Indian sourced wood will not work quite like European walnut but can be scraped to a more pleasing profile. I have use scrapers to rapidly remove wood but in a controlled fashion. As wood is removed, you may want to return the barrel to the stock to guard against breakage. As the stock gets to the final shape, use a walnut stain to provide the color of European walnut. Let the stock completely dry before applying the final layers of an oil finish.

 

[German Jäger]

Ok thanks this is a good vision and the idea behind in the white came on me! What fo you think can i use aqua fortis and tanine for the wood for coloring? I also want to use none black pigment. But how it works to slim the stock give it a maintance esp. I lock area and ramrod pipes?! I hsve no prsctice with this kind of dlmmed wood techiques..please hrlp

 

[Grenadier1758]

I don't think aqua fortis will be a suitable stain for that Indian sourced wood. Aqua fortis is great for curly maple but not so much for that rosewood variety found in India. A thinned orange or yellow pigment followed by a very thin black pigment is probably one of the better ways to approach a walnut type of stain.

Scrapers can be the square or shaped cabinet scrapers. Used hacksaw blades can be used to make a scraper. These will have to be sharpened on the flat side. A steel can be used to hone a bur on the scraper. Properly sharpened, a scraper will take thin curls off the wood and is a bit more aggressive than sandpaper. There are tutorials on the net that demonstrate the use of scrapers. Get some scrap wood and you will be pulling curls of wood off in no time.

Follow the links below to get an idea of how to use scrapers. The video linked in the second topic will take you to a guitar site. It has very good demonstration of using and sharpening scrapers.

How to sharpen this scraper? | The Muzzleloading Forum

Can a stock be sanded too smooth? | Page 2 | The Muzzleloading Forum

 

[Archer 756]

Broken glass also works for scraper

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Um..., not sure that the Indian rosewood (it's not teak) can be easily shaped by anything other than a pantograph machine. It tends to be brittle, and have odd soft spots....

LD

 

[tenngun]

Right now there is a modified one on the classified adds, Middlesex Village with a modified barrel

 

[German Jäger]

Ok thank you have you some pictures?!

 

[Grenadier1758]

Here's the link to the one in the Forum's Classified ads:

FOR SALE - COOKSON Marked New England Fowler | The Muzzleloading Forum

There are pictures.

 

[dave_person]

Hi G-J,
One of my friends shoots that gun during our woods walk shoots and he does fine with it. I've shot it and find it horribly clunky and heavy but it shot pretty well. The original "Cookson" fowler is a very slim and elegant gun stocked in cherry wood. It weighs about 3.6 kg and the bore is about 18mm. The breech of the barrel is large and it tapers quickly such that most of the barrel is a straight thin walled tube and the balance is excellent. The India-made gun is heavy and unbalanced compared with the original. You need to remove a lot of the stock thickness all over to bring it closer to the original gun. All of the carved details need to be refined and lowered in height. I really don't know what wood they are made from but it is heavy and may not work very well. One of the big issues in my opinion is the lock. I've not worked over any India-made dog locks but I've repaired and refurbished quite a few other India-made flintlocks to know the workmanship varies from OK to horrible. Original dog locks do not have an internal bridle supporting the tumbler. Therefore, the tumbler must fit in the lock plate precisely to prevent wobble and wear. I would check to see how well yours is made and check that fit of the tumbler and plate. In working over any India-made lock, the first thing I do is file and sand off the over polished exterior and clean up the screw holes that were dished out from polishing with a buffing wheel. I then polish the exterior with stones dipped in paraffin oil to achieve a correct finish. Then I use a large single cut file to flatten and true up the inside of the lock plate so all the components are fitted on to a flat surface. I polish the inside with stones and oil. Then I check the fit of all the internal parts and try to correct any crude imprecise work if I can.

Below are photos of New England fowlers I've made showing the classic stock architecture. The first closely follows the Cookson gun (different lock) and you can see how slim the stock should be. The second is copied from the famous Hawk fowler and again shows the slim lines. Both guns weigh under 3.1 kgs and have bores of 15.7mm.

dave

 

[German Jäger]

Oh great story with many good advices so i say thank you! Monday i travel to the shop an buy it for 575,00€ i think its ok and i try my best to slim him down! I hope of new tips for the Project! Thank you

 

[JCKelly]

I’ve looked at it and thought of buying it.
I don’t have any fears of an India made gun, though I think I could expect doing some modifications to it

Welding up the touch hole is about the best one.

 

[Grenadier1758]

But @German Jäger will be getting a fowling gun that has passed the German CIP proofing requirements. That does mean something even if he has to do work on the lock to tune it up for proper performance and slim down the stock for a more pleasing profile.

 

[tenngun]

Welding up the touch hole is about the best one.

Do you have some examples of when Indian made guns failed that were properly loaded, and properly carried rod?
Bobs ol rusty gun that hot been cleaned over loaded and ball not well seated didn’t fail because it was made in India

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
Yeah, the big and never ending discussion about barrel safety is a red herring. The real problems with India-made guns are everything else; the locks, hardware, stocks, workmanship, etc.

dave

 

[German Jäger]

Please no discusion about this story and safety..i like to have good advice for reshaping the stock to original look how i must work, its true the locks are some good somme bad i have the Ketland 1812 Trade Smoothbore .62 all was ok on the lock the baker Type Rifle Smoothy are bad Lock and need much work both Stock are badly painted an needed full work

 

[PathfinderNC]

Please no discusion about this story and safety..i like to have good advice for reshaping the stock to original look how i must work, its true the locks are some good somme bad i have the Ketland 1812 Trade Smoothbore .62 all was ok on the lock the baker Type Rifle Smoothy are bad Lock and need much work both Stock are badly painted an needed full work

Best wishes on your project. Looking forward to updates with photos of your modifications!

 

[tenngun]

Please no discusion about this story and safety..i like to have good advice for reshaping the stock to original look how i must work, its true the locks are some good somme bad i have the Ketland 1812 Trade Smoothbore .62 all was ok on the lock the baker Type Rifle Smoothy are bad Lock and need much work both Stock are badly painted an needed full work

They have a lot of extra wood for sure. And heavy.
you get on to the weeds about fit and finish. It ain’t a three thousand dollar gun
A thousand dollar brandy is pretty smooth on the tongue but a thirty dollar bottle is still good to drink.