Doglock questions

[HS_1775]

Hello everyone, I am new here. But I have a few questions. I am a Living historian and an armature gunsmith. I have recently been thinking about making a doglock musket for myself. However, most Living History events require doglocks to have an internal halfcock. Does anyone know how I may achieve this, thanks.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

What events require the internal half-cock?

Basically as it's often a pain to switch a tumbler over to a different lock plate, simply take a lock that you want to build into your new musket, and swap out a doglock cock with the exterior notch, and add the dog to the outside of the lock plate. You might find a lock with a cock that only needs reshaping a bit. Voila, converted to look like a dog-lock.

LD

 

[Commodore Swab]

The india built doglocks have a half cock.

 

[yellowhammer]

armature/amateur... poetic similitude; indeed.

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

There were 2 methods ... but also see this link below, plus download the attached PDF article on English Locks and Doglocks:

https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/17th-c-english-dog-lock-musket.177771/#post-2577997

English Lock with Dog - That is a Leonard Day lock at Half Cock as shown. At full cock, the cock is held by the horizontal sear that projects through the lockplate. When the trigged is pulled that 'large bar, or the sear arm, pulls up and off the lockplate so it doesn't catch that 'V' tipped notch on the tumbler as the cock falls forward.

Later Doglock - Has both Half Cock and Full Cock notches cut on the sear, like a typical flintlock. This is a lock from The Rifle Shoppe.

 

[tenngun]

My dog lock has a halfcock notch
They are known from originals. I love muzzeloading has on from cr 1710 that has halkcck and dog

 

[HS_1775]

Thank you all for the info, all the help means a lot!

 

[James Dietz]

Not a gunsmith myself, I would just like to say I think it is great that you do living history from the dog-lock era! I would love to know more about that.

 

[oreclan]

What events require the internal half-cock?

Basically as it's often a pain to switch a tumbler over to a different lock plate, simply take a lock that you want to build into your new musket, and swap out a doglock cock with the exterior notch, and add the dog to the outside of the lock plate. You might find a lock with a cock that only needs reshaping a bit. Voila, converted to look like a dog-lock.

LD

I have a repro of a Miroku French 1763 lock converted to a doglock by Jim Everett.
The cock had a "spur" welded to it. A dog was formed of steel and screwed to the lockplate to interact with and hold the cock.
It also retains the half cock notch on the tumbler.

 

[FlinterNick]

Hello everyone, I am new here. But I have a few questions. I am a Living historian and an armature gunsmith. I have recently been thinking about making a doglock musket for myself. However, most Living History events require doglocks to have an internal halfcock. Does anyone know how I may achieve this, thanks.

All the dog lock’s I’ve assembled from the rifle shoppe have a half cock notch with the exception of 2 of them which are much earlier patterns with a lateral sear.

Furthermore, all the original dog lock’s I’ve reviewed all had half cock notches.

Indian made Dog Locks often do not have a halfcock notch, at leas the few I’ve seen did not.

I would just go with a rifle shoppe Cookson or AR dog lock kit, these are pretty good quality locks. The queen Ann dog lock musket I’ve never seen.

The reason for the dog catch was because they didn’t trust hate quality of their steel parts. The mainsprings were excessively strong and would wear down the tumblers.

The early sea service locks were essentially dog lock’s without internal bridles and catches, with the difference being the quality of the steel parts.

There are a lot of things you can do to add a halfcock notch, The easiest way is to TIG weld on some steel and shape it to a half cock notch.

I’ve assembled several rifle shoppe dog locks, the queen Ann, Cookson, WR and AR all have half cock nothes, I’d look no further than with the rifle shoppe

 

[FlinterNick]

My dog lock has a halfcock notch
They are known from originals. I love muzzeloading has on from cr 1710 that has halkcck and dog

Many people seem to think original dog locks didnt have a half cock notch, they certainly did as you pointed out. They had the dog catches because they didnt trust the quality of their steel.

 

[Commodore Swab]

Many people seem to think original dog locks didnt have a half cock notch, they certainly did as you pointed out. They had the dog catches because they didnt trust the quality of their steel.

This is true. It has been good to see that india has maintained true by retaining the half cock on their pieces.

 

[rickystl]

Dog Locks. An interesting subject. The early Dog locks, also referred to as English (or Jacobian) locks were essentially a snaphaunce (with a single notch on the tumbler) but with a one-piece frizzen and pan assembly. And still using the horizontal sear assembly. The one-piece frizzen and pan being the technological innovation of the day. But unlike a snaphaunce, where you would just keep the frizzen/battery in the forward position as a safety, you couldn't do this with the English/Dog Locks while the frizzen/pan are in the closed position. So, I believe the external dog-style safety catch was added about the same time to compensate for the lack of any safety position. Innovation continued with a second safety notch cut directly on the tumbler. But the use of the exterior dog catch continued as sort of a secondary safety until it was determined that it was no longer necessary. Of course, this is just my view.

Rick

 

[tenngun]

I shot a string of fifteen cartridges in my dog lock. It took me five min and twenty one seconds, about twenty two sencond a load
However that dog made me feel a whole lot safer dropping charges down a primed gun

 

[rickystl]

I have a repro of a Miroku French 1763 lock converted to a doglock by Jim Everett.
The cock had a "spur" welded to it. A dog was formed of steel and screwed to the lockplate to interact with and hold the cock.
It also retains the half cock notch on the tumbler.

That's interesting. Would be neat to see a photo of the lock if you get a chance.

Here is a custom built that I bought second (or more lol) hand, and sold a couple years ago here on the Forum. No marking on the gun. I'm guessing it was built sometime in the 1990's. Note the lock is a Chamber's Siler Lock. It's what Chambers call their "builders lock". It's a standard Siler lock but with the lock plate left square to allow the builder to shape the lock plate as desired. In this case, the owner wanted to simulate an earlier dog lock. The builder simply made a cut in the rear of the cock, and added a dog-catch - and a faux hammer stop. Pretty clever.

Rick

 

[Irishmusket]

Dog Locks. An interesting subject. The early Dog locks, also referred to as English (or Jacobian) locks were essentially a snaphaunce (with a single notch on the tumbler) but with a one-piece frizzen and pan assembly. And still using the horizontal sear assembly. The one-piece frizzen and pan being the technological innovation of the day. But unlike a snaphaunce, where you would just keep the frizzen/battery in the forward position as a safety, you couldn't do this with the English/Dog Locks while the frizzen/pan are in the closed position. So, I believe the external dog-style safety catch was added about the same time to compensate for the lack of any safety position. Innovation continued with a second safety notch cut directly on the tumbler. But the use of the exterior dog catch continued as sort of a secondary safety until it was determined that it was no longer necessary. Of course, this is just my view.

Rick

Actually the dog lock catches were added latter as these beasties were known to go off half cocked .seen and own several an english snaphaunce Is not a true dog lock at all it is a Snaphaunce with dog safety added .I n late 1640s the true Dog lock began showing up these are based on the early french flintlocks very much a flint lock tumbler and internal sear with 1 notch which was full cock and a dog catch for a safety latter a safety notch was added to the tumbler and the musket now had two safeties much safer .It was not till King William period that the Dog lock became the standard arm of The English however the Match lock continued in service as well as the snaphaunce well into early 17 hundreds especially the navy royal marines

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

... me thinks you best download and review that PDF research article posted above on snaphaunces to English locks to English locks with dogs. That post #5 also discusses the not 3, but 5 types of English locks, with or without dog catches ...

I don't recall ever hearing about, never mind seeing, a true shaphaunce lock with a dog catch, where the frizzen and the pan cover were 2 separate pieces as the snaphaunce originated. The 1st safety on a snaphaunce of course, was just pushing the steel (frizzen) forward and away from the pan. Others had internal safeties that locked the nose of the sear.

The English lock was a development in response to the appearance of the French flintlock and was not an evolution per se of the snaphaunce as some believe, albeit wrongly. Aa study of the snaphaunce's mechanics, and military commands of the day, ultimately hold the key to truly understanding the development of all 17th century English flint & steel locks for firearms, where the evolutionary sequence was from snaphaunce to French flintlock to the English lock.

That article also concludes, " ... that all "true" dog locks are, in reality, converted snaphaunces."