double barrel 12

[bigted]

so first off I have a "navy arms" 12 gauge double built by Uberti.

I love this shotgun and use it with round balls more then the shot.

it is kinda heavy so am contemplating cutting back the barrels to a more manageable 20 or 24 inch tubes instead of the 28's.

is there any reason why not to shoot the round balls in this shotgun/smoothie?

also another question before I get too involved here is ; when it says "smoothbore" at the top ... does this mean the double barrel shotguns or just the smoothbore longarms of the 18th century and before? if I should not post about my double barrel then where is the rite place?

thanks

 

[Zonie]

Any smoothbore is fair game in this area of the Forum.

Single barrel, double barrel, trade guns, military muskets.....

It can be a flintlock or a percussion gun.

The wheellocks and matchlocks have their own section of the Forum.

 

[Knapper51]

One of the great things about smoothbores is that they are versatile. I have a Pedersoli Brown Bess, a Jackie Brown Dutch Club Butt, and a Northwest Trade Gun by TOW. I load them with everything from single round ball to buckshot to birdshot. So, to answer your question, there's no reason to avoid round balls. Depending on how thin the barrel walls are you might want to avoid heavy charges of powder.

Knap

 

[Alden]

Depending on how thin the barrel walls are you might want to avoid heavy charges of powder.

Knap

THANK YOU!

No more than the bore in grains of FFg only.

 

[bigted]

Depending on how thin the barrel walls are you might want to avoid heavy charges of powder.

Knap

THANK YOU!

No more than the bore in grains of FFg only.

so your saying no more then around 72 grains of 2F then? im bettin that this is gonna be a pretty energetic load behind that round ball. should put a 50 to 75 yard bull or cow elk down with authority I would surmise.

 

[Alden]

Check with the experienced elk hunters here. Probably not the gun/load I'd use if I had my druthers...

 

[Zonie]

I'm pretty sure Alden was joshing when he said that.

One of the problems with the web and forums on the web is it is difficult to know if the writer is serious or he's got a big grin on his face.
(That's what we have the little smiley faces for but some people don't use them).

A 70 grain 2Fg powder load under a .690 diameter ball in a 12 guage will give a muzzle velocity of about 800 fps.
Even with the large size of the ball and its weight of 494 grains, that powder load would be on the light side for elk.

Upping it to a 90 grain load would put the balls muzzle energy at over 1000 lb/ft and even out at 100 yards, it would be carrying more energy and velocity than the muzzle energy and velocity the 70 grain load would give.

 

[Knapper51]

Something else to consider with a double is that the two barrels may be "regulated" or angled slightly toward each other. This is done so that a shot pattern from either barrel will arrive at the same spot at average wingshooting distances instead of slightly to the right or left. This would mean that a ball from the left barrel will cross the line of sight and strike somewhere to the right of point of aim at extended distances. The right barrel will strike left. At 70 yards this could be quite a bit away from point of aim. If you haven't already done so, I'd suggest you spend some bench time at the range. Shoot one barrel at 25, 50, and 75 yards to see if the point of impact changes windage-wise. Then do the same with the other barrel. Then you will know.

Knap

 

[Britsmoothy]

Something else to consider with a double is that the two barrels may be "regulated" or angled slightly toward each other. This is done so that a shot pattern from either barrel will arrive at the same spot at average wingshooting distances instead of slightly to the right or left. This would mean that a ball from the left barrel will cross the line of sight and strike somewhere to the right of point of aim at extended distances. The right barrel will strike left. At 70 yards this could be quite a bit away from point of aim. If you haven't already done so, I'd suggest you spend some bench time at the range. Shoot one barrel at 25, 50, and 75 yards to see if the point of impact changes windage-wise. Then do the same with the other barrel. Then you will know.

Knap

None of the repro doubles I have had seem to have any regulating done. Some Ihad to alter myself.
Most Pedersoli 12g doubles work up to 90grn. I have used this dose in 3f and a .690 patched over a fibre wad but in one favoured barrel.
I treat them more as a combination gun.

 

[Alden]

Not joshing. A shotgun is not a double-rifle nor even a double smoothbore musket. Up to maybe 75 grains of black powder in an unsighted longarm would not be my personal first choice for Elk.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Good point, however, if an archer can get close enough then why not a double and a ball?

 

[bigted]

WOA there big feller ... :surrender: ... my "shotgun has a real rear sight [semi buckhorn] and a real front sight [Lyman tall bead].

I have them super glued onto the rib for now to see just where everything is gonna wind up hitting ... then I plan to have them attached permanently somehow when I get her where I want it.

na I was just joshin with the WOA thing ... you didn't know bout the sights till jest now but I had the same feelings and I still don't know if they will regulate to where I need em ... I also couldn't think of a better combo gun and the smooth bores should handle anything I want to shovel into em I would think ... lead wise that is.

the way those huge round balls hit I would think they would be great elk medicine tho ... I will take the 80 or 90 grain powder advice seriously as well.

 

[Britsmoothy]

A sighted 12g of mine.
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/294186/

 

[Alden]

It's not the sights but the charge...

 

[bigted]

LOL ... ... the dang sights were kinda fragile being glued on a concave surface and with just a small bump they broke rite off anyway.

took it to the range today to experiment with loads and see about grouping and see if I could repeat my Alaska experiments when I lived up there ... NOPE !!!

dang thing wouldn't keep a 6 inch group at 25 yards with both barrels ... so I followed the suggestion of using one barrel [which is the left one as it hits at poa at the 25 yards ... but when I stacked 2 on top of each other I smiled and swabbed the left barrel and reloaded her ... this shot landed 6 inch's to the left and high so my bubble were burst.

guess these easy loading balls are not what she likes. I will have to create a log for her and write down the bore and ball size I have tried so I don't repeat a combo she don't like. along with this I am thinking about trying to file a little off the edge of the muzzle so I can move the impact a little bit on the right barrel.

she is a gas to shoot tho. I even loaded 9 .32 cal balls in her and let fly with some double-o buck. that landed great on my target but only at the 25 yards.

I like the ease of loading and cleaning as well as the direct nipple location. this shooter is a dandy for sure and I will continue to play with it and see if I can get it to work out for me.

thankyou all for the education and suggestions concerning the smooth double. it is VERY fun to play with.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Mine does well with a fibre wad, a snug lubed patches d .690".

 

[54ball]

Round ball loads are not listed for that gun but going by shot weight 1 1/4 oz & 90 grns ffg is the maximum load. By weight a .710 ball comes out right at the same as 1 1/4 oz...about 550 grns. So 90 grns and a roundball is the max load.

Those Max loads are for guns in new condition. Like Alden I'm uncomfortable with those loads in a dbl shotgun...personally I think it's pushing it.

With that said there is no way I consider hunting Elk with it unless I could put ten in a pie plate at 50 yards with no fliers.

 

[wayne terry]

And just one more thing, if you do cut it down you will be loosing any choke you have IF you do ever decide to shoot shot you will be shooting from an open choke, but even still I do this myself and use an open choke double barrel coach gun when hunting quail, good luck to ya.

 

[Alden]

Some long guns s/be conservatively loaded basically with the pistol rules approach in mind albeit relative to their own bore of course. This includes, but may not be limited to, inspected original antiques, brass-barreled, canoe guns, anything made in India and...

...double-barrel shotguns.

No, of course that's not law, not set in stone, and even if it was you can still do whatever you want...

...but I assure you you won't always get away with that and failure here is always a cruel teacher to you and maybe even those around you whom you are responsible to.

You also need to follow the rule of thumb about black powder grain size. Whether you say .50 and above or even above .50 only gets FFg, just do it.

Now, no need for others to comment by the way about what they've personally gotten away with to date either here or where blackpowder shooting is a rare occurrence and limited privilege.

 

[Alden]

Oh, and to be fair and completely honest, I'm really most seriously concerned about someone shooting conicals in their double-barreled shotgun with loads north of one grain per caliber...