Double Barrel Rifles

[jerem0621]

I am curious if anyone here has one? I am mostly a lurker here but I recently took a fancy to these pretty double barrel ML Percussion guns... no, I'm not talking about shotguns either.

I think there are two made by Pedersoli, here are some pics

Does anyone have any experience with these fine looking rifles? How do they shoot? Anyone use heavy loads?

I typically hunt in brush and would love to have something like this. I've been in school earning my MBA and I am about to finish so I can start getting back into my preferred hobby... ML hunting, shooting, petting, etc. etc.

Thanks!

Jeremiah

 

[Wes/Tex]

Haven't actually owned one but have helped a couple of friends shoot theirs through the years. In one case, we spend most of a day and a pound of powder trying to work up a load that would hit to POA with both barrels. The old European double rifles, muzzleloading and cartridge, had their barrels "regulated" by their makers so both barrels shot to relatively the same point. With modern labor costs, this isn't possible to anything like the same degree. What Mike finally decided, was to use the sights for the most accurate barrel and 'Kentucky windage' the other barrel which impacted less than three inches away.

The guns have cut rifling but the .50 and .54 are 1-24" twist, if memory serves, and are set up to do better with Minie/Maxi type projectiles. The .58 is a 1-48" twist rate and would be usable with conicals or balls. The big .72 is a slower 1-84" twist and set up for patched ball. These guns are interesting for their intended purpose, which is big game hunting in closer cover. A few years ago there was a brief problem with quality control but I've heard nothing since, one way or the other. Good luck with whatever way you decide to go. If this bunch can't help you out, nobody can! :thumbsup:

 

[Zonie]

Here's a couple of links for the Kodiak double barrel rifle.
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/277104/post/1246759/fromsearch/1/
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/281128/post/1293691/fromsearch/1/

 

[TFoley]

'Double rifle' is the proper term. :thumbsup:

Centrefire double rifles are still being made as I write this. At least four English gunmakers [VERY expensive] and three French [moderately expensive] and two German companies [again, moderately expensive] are making them, as is the Baikal concern in Russia.

There is one fine American gunmaker in TX who builds them, too, and posted an article on how he does it recently on another forum - around $10,000 get one of his guns, and I'd love to have one.

If you have a minute, click onto tac's guns on Youtube, add 'double rifle' and see what comes up.

tac

 

[BrownBear]

There are several scattered among my friends, both 50's and 58's. But for some reason no 54's. Much as the guys like them, they're kinda dust collectors. For many years you could only load one barrel during our muzzleloader season. I think that changed this year, but you might make sure a two-shooter is legal in your own seasons. Kinda frustrating to carry the extra weight, but only load one barrel.

 

[Naphtali]

Over the past five years I have owned three Pedersoli Kodiak rifles, two Safari higher grade .72-caliber, one lower grade .58-caliber. I presently own one of the two Safaris.

If you want chapter-and-verse regarding [any] of these rifles, let me know.

 

[Rokon]

One of the interesting facts about "regulating" double rifles is that some makers alter the muzzle crowns to adjust the two barrels to the same point of impact rather than re-soldering the barrels.

Actually, 40-44-45 caliber double rifles were quite popular in New England for deer and bear. Ned Roberts has a great chapter on hunting with double rifles in his timeless book, "The Muzzle Loading Cap Lock Rifle."

 

[okawbow]

I made a 45 cal. double rifle about 30 years ago. Made the locks from scratch, except the hammers. I silver soldered the barrels together, thinking I would use a double leaf rear sight, but they shoot to the same point of impact, with the right barrel on at 50 yards, and the left barrel on at 100 yards, with maxiballs. The gun weighs about 11 pounds.


SANY0061 by okawbow, on Flickr

 

[Rokon]

Now, that's impressive! Can you share some additional photos with us of your creation.

 

[okawbow]

here you go..


SANY0062 by okawbow, on Flickr


SANY0063 by okawbow, on Flickr


SANY0060 by okawbow, on Flickr

 

[Parzifal]

Very nice rifle!

 

[satx78247]

Has anybody tried one of the "cape-guns"?
(I'm "a fan of" combination-guns & would like a .58 rifle beside a 12 bore smoothie. - Loaded properly with a heavy Minie/buckshot, that even ought to be a superior "dangerous game gun" for Africa, Asia or Alaska)

yours, satx

 

[cynthialee]

Why not put a sight on each barrel and just have each sight zero'd in?

 

[RedFeather]

Regulating a double is very time consuming and, when delivered, the owner is given one or two specific loads that the gun was adjusted to. Change brass, bullets, etc and you might no longer be on target. Why they cost so much. With the bp guns, I guess most play with load combinations until they get something printing reasonably close at the desired distance. I dislike the flip up sights. They can get knocked flat by branches and don't offer two quick shots. These are not light weight guns, BTW, if that is a concern while hunting.

I recall the twists listed as 1:48 and, for a while, 1:66 for the 54.

 

[theoldredneck]

I converted a side by side double barrel shotgun to a cape. Right barrel is a 50 caliber rifle. The left is 56 smooth bore. The liners came from TJ's. Very happy with them. Lining up the liners before making them permanent took some time but well worth the effort. Will probably do a double rifle or some type combination gun later as time permits.

 

[jerem0621]

Thank you all for the feedback! Reading this thread makes me want one of these rifles even more.

I've never built a ML so I will have to start with a somewhat simpler ML to learn with.

Thanks!

Jeremiah

 

[RedFeather]

Forgot to mention that the Kodiak lists a Cape gun barrel option with the smooth bore being 12 gauge.

 

[theoldredneck]

The smooth bore barrel of the cape gun gives you the option of using shot or a patched round ball. With a 12 gauge barrel a healthy load of buckshot could be loaded. Something to think about.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Forgot to mention that the Kodiak lists a Cape gun barrel option with the smooth bore being 12 gauge.

Methinks the combo rifle/smooth would fall into the Germanic class of drillings rather than double rifles.
Downside, IMHO, to these double rifles is simply weight. The African hunters had assistants known as gun bearers who carried the rifles until the last second before a shot. In Europe hunting styles differ and most shooting is done from elevated stands with rests, little to no carrying around in the woods.
We have seen some beautiful rifles in this thread, but, for practical purposes I wouldn't want one. Show piece maybe, but carry in our Ozark forests? Never for me.
BTW, a local gun shop has a Kodiak and want $700.00 for it.

 

[satx78247]

You are CORRECT in all points. - I collect drillings & capes. Those firearms are HEAVY to "tote about". - For example, my 9.5x9.5x16 gauge has 24" tubes and weighs about 16.2 pounds.
(Had it not been equipped with an over 2-inch wide padded saddle-leather sling, it would be UNPLEASANT to carry any distance.)

As to gunbearers in Africa, check out HORN OF THE HUNTER by Robert C. Ruark, which recounts a story out of circa 1930 Kenya, wherein "an English baroness of a certain age" (and well-known huntress, with any number of dangerous animals "on her wall") was "treed" by a wounded Cape Buffalo.
(Meanwhile, the two gunbearers had "decamped to the tall grass", leaving the PH with an unloaded double .577NE, no ammo & the Lady unarmed.)
According to the author, the PH ran round and round and round the tree, for what must have seemed like an eternity to the PH, just ahead of the buff and (according to "the treed noblewoman") then called out, "Your Grace, would you care to climb to a higher limb? - I may soon need the one you are sitting upon.".
Recounting the incident later, at The New Stanley Grill in Nairobi, the PH said, "Sorry Madame, you are incorrect. In the circumstance, I did NOT address you as 'Your Grace'. - I cried out, 'Get your bleeding arse up higher in the tree, as I'm climbing up'."
(I suspect that it was the PH who accurately recounted the incident.)

yours, satx