Double barrel shotgun

[Feltwad]

It's a 13-gauge.

Yes it is stamped 13 bore but like a 11 bore they are classed has 12 bore load
Feltwad

 

[sheriff john]

Asking out of ignorance, but somewhere in the fog of my memory was an obscure (and possibly wrong) idea that solder used in joining barrels is/was an important thing. Soft vs hard vs melting temp vs other stuff. Flux, too?

Mid 19th century manufacturing was a time of great change. Gotta hand it to the old time craftsmen who created the antique guns we still use and enjoy - they were very, very good at what they did with what they had to work with.

 

[Pukka Bundook]

Sherrff,
On the continent hard solder was used, but in the UK, soft solder was used.
Hard or silver solder takes a lot higher temp, and can scale the bores.
Soft solder was found to be completely adequate, and guns with the tubes so joined have withstood vast amounts of shots.

A Boss double was used for testing cartridges at Eley, and fired one and a half million rounds before being set aside.
It was far from worn out.
I do not know if a specific flux was used apart from non -acidic.

best,
R.

 

[Bucks Co]

The 'gap' at the breech is fairly normal - allows the right barrel to be unscrewed first then the left can be demounted - if the ribs seem tight elsewhere then its probably ok - 50grams of shot is over 1-3/4oz -seems a bit on the heavy side - I'd stay with no more than 1oz to 1-1/8oz for an older gun like this ( 28 - 32gm) and use the same measure for either FFg or Fg powder. Have fun and enjoy shooting it.

 

[Squirrel79]

Same advice, if the barrels ring, put a small single cell flashlight or similar down the barrels and look for huge pits, if there are none, get to shooting.

The gap between the breech plugs is larger than most but they are independent of each other.

I ran my bore scope down before shooting and was actually surprised how good it looked. I've seen plenty of older smokeless single shot shotguns severely pitted.

 

[Squirrel79]

The English-made sporting gun with metric threads has yet to be made. You may have noticed that shotgun barrels are in gauges of so many spherical shot to the pound - 12 gauge [aka 12 bore] is the measure here, not 18mm or thereabouts.

A token nod to the metric system suffices here in UK, and even the government of the day gave up trying to fully metricate the UK back in the 80's. We use miles and yards for distances here, except for Wales, which uses Milltir and Llathau. We do miles per gallon, too, seeing no sense in measuring how many litres it requires for us to travel a metric distance, when our distances are measured in miles.

Bows have draw weights in pounds, and arrows are measured in inches. Powder is measured in grains, as are bullets, and velocities in feet per second. Flying is measured in MPH and so many feet above ground or sea level - and tides are measured in feet, as are winds.

You get the idea, I hope.

I did not know that. Now I do.

 

[Squirrel79]

Dear All - please don't confuse 'Damascus' barrels with 'fine twist' barrels - they are quite different in manufacture.

Damascus Barrels - Barrel tubes built up by twisting alternate strips of iron and steel around a fixed rod (mandrel) and forge-welding them together in varying combinations according to the intended quality and the skill of the maker. The rod was withdrawn, the interior reamed and the exterior draw-filed until the finished tube was achieved. Damascus barrels may be recognized by any of a variety of twist or spiral patterns visible in the surface of the steel. Before the 20th century, barrels were typically built in this manner because gunmakers did not have the technology to drill a deep hole the full length of a bar of steel without coming out the side. Generally superseded a century ago by fluid steel barrels.

Damascus barrels were usually intended for use with black powder---the standard of the day. The contour of the barrel wall thickness, intended for the fast explosion of black powder, was quite thick at the breech and tapered thinner towards the muzzle. It is not advisable to shoot modern smokeless powder in a damascus barrel. Apart from giving due deference to the age of such barrels and to the method of their construction, smokeless powder burns more slowly, lowering the pressure at the breech end, but considerably raising it further down the barrel to a level such barrels were rarely designed to handle.

A demonstration forging, showing the steps undertaken to construct a barrel tube of damascus steel. In this case, three bars, usually of different alloys, independently twisted, then forge-welded together at a bright yellow heat into a single continuous flat bar, then wrapped around a mandrel and further forge-welded into a solid spiral. From Richard Akehurst, Game Guns & Rifles, G. Bell & Sons, London, 1969.

And, finally, bored out inside, drawfiled outside to requisite thinness, and finished to enhance the forged pattern.

I'm sure that Feltwad or Old Dog will come by dreckly and explain all this to you.

The barrels actually say laminated steel although I always thought that was the same as damascus but could be wrong

 

[Feltwad]

Example the parting of the barrels through neglect but can be saved
Feltwad

Finish

 

[Doc]

My wife and I have quite a few Damascus doubles in 11 and 13 ga. For them we purchased 11 and 13 ga. components from “The Gun Works” in Springfield Or. As for our loads in all of them we use 3F for clays 65gr. and 1 1/8 of 8. For pheasant 90 gr of 3F and 1 1/4 of 8 Bismuth since we live in Ca. These are a mix of English and Belgian. Never a problem.
Doc,

 

[TransYank]

Nice. I to shoot Original English doubles have several. I have always use 1F to create lower pressure. But really don't do well on shooting trap combination of no chokes and I believe slow lock time because of 1F. Is your 65 g of 3f a square load with 1 1/8 oz?

 

[Doc]

Trans Yank, Yes, 65 gr of 3F and 1 1/8 is basically a square load ,but I use it because I get a great pattern with it. The same with my pheasant load of 90 gr and 1 1/4. Another reason is because I can get a higher velocity with 3F. Therefore a greater chance of a hit.
Doc,

 

[TransYank]

What are you using between powder and shot? What overshot card? Same for target and hunting loads?

 

[Doc]

Trans Yank, Unfortunately there’s never a perfect answer. A 11ga 12 and a 13 I have needs a thick card 1/5 in fiber wad and then a thin card. My other 5 I use Ox Yoke wonder wads. Two over powder and one over shot. Makes for easier and faster reloading. Pattern your gun and find out what it needs. The back side of X mas paper is white usually 32in wide and broken up into one in. squares. Perfect for patterning.
Doc,

 

[TransYank]

Trans Yank, Unfortunately there’s never a perfect answer. A 11ga 12 and a 13 I have needs a thick card 1/5 in fiber wad and then a thin card. My other 5 I use Ox Yoke wonder wads. Two over powder and one over shot. Makes for easier and faster reloading. Pattern your gun and find out what it needs. The back side of X mas paper is white usually 32in wide and broken up into one in. squares. Perfect for patterning.
Doc,

Yep I have been and one of mine really patterns great out to about 35 yards. Be working on others next few weeks. Have 1/4" and plenty of thin overshot cards. Also made a punch and experimenting with card board best seems to be free boxes you can get at post office to ship stuff. Thanks

 

[Feltwad]

All you need are 2 1/8 card over powder and 1 1/16 over shot the fancy wads like fancy fishing flies are there to catch the user and just throwing money away

Feltwad

 

[Pukka Bundook]

Bucks,
I believe the O.P said 50 grains, not grams.

Felktwad,
The work of re laying ribs is not for the weak of heart!!
I have done enough of it to give myself a real good worry, but not enough to actually feel confident in the outcome!
best,
Richard.

 

[Doc]

Feltwad, It happens I’ve got a couple of doubles that for some reason NEED a 1/5 in. fiber wad, because without it the center of my becomes almost empty. No idea why but it happens.
Doc,

 

[11Bravo]

I hate jumping in on a thread by the OP, but it may help him also.
Firstly I have a few English proofed SxS stamped with the 13, both ML and breach loaders. Correct me if I'm wrong but the 13 shows the bore ID at proofing (.710). And if it exceeds 0.010 over bore it is considered out of proof.
Now my question is why was the tight bore acceptable to the U.K. shooters back then, especially in the breach loaders.

 

[Doc]

11Bravo., The answer to your question is unknown to me. Other than to say I have 3 early English SxS . One is a 11ga and two are 13. Why, is something we may never find out for sure. If someone really knows the answer I would truly I like to know.
Doc,