Double boom.

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nagantino

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Went to the range today to exercise the .451 Volunteer. The weather conditions were pretty poor, very wet and blowy. I had made up a small number of vials of black powder, 15 or so. Of the 15 there were a number, about 3, which fired satisfactorily, hitting the target, but with a sort of boom then a second boom a millisecond apart. I didn’t like it. The charge was 61 grains of a fine powder available locally, but it’s good stuff. There was crud aplenty so I swabbed after each shot but the last shot was this boom boom as if a space existed between the powder and the bullet even though I dropped it home hard.
What could cause this?
 
Most likely, you were experiencing a longer than usual "hang time". The first "boom" was the primer firing, then a short time later the powder charge fired. Wet conditions CAN cause this. It might also be an echo you are hearing. Hard to say for sure. I know of no way for a main charge in a muzzleloader to fire twice... which is not to say that it could not happen somehow.

Did you experience two instances of recoil when you fired it?
 
What is this "local" powder? What you are describing sounds disturbingly like secondary explosive effect. If so, it is an extremely dangerous condition that must be eliminated. If the condition is there, you are setting off a pipe bomb right in front of your face. Catastrophic failure is not fun.
The effect is caused by partial ignition of a load, forcing the projectile a short distance down the bore, and then the rest of the charge igniting strikes the projectile with a space between breech and bullet. That space will be the one you briefly see blow out the top of your barrel when the gun blows up.
 
Like @Dale Allen Raby said, it's a "hang" or "lag" fire, caused by a dirty/fouled fire channel between the nipple and main charge.
It's a common issue that can become more prevalent within the environment you describe,
It's part of the challenge/fun of, traditional arms.
(can ya learn from that, and keep it shooting next time?)
 
As Waksupi said, it COULD be an SEE. It is a real thing, but not normally encountered in muzzleloaders. Now if you are using powder sold in a paper sack from the back of a truck in Chinatown you might well have an issue like that. If you are, you are very lucky.

We are all just sorta guessing based upon our individual experiences. Ultimately the responsibility is yours and I think we have an expectation that you are doing your part, i.e.: reading the fine manual, using the correct materials, using the proper procedures, etc. The only home-made powder you should be using is that which you made yourself. That way, you know exactly what it is. If you blow your gun up with your powder, it is your fault. I learned this lesson shooting someone else's handloads.

If it doesn't have a manufacturer's label on it, you don't want to use it. If it has a label but you never heard of the manufacturer, don't use it... don't even BUY it. I would use Pyrodex or Triple 7 if I could not find black powder in the original container for sale. In these times of the Internet, you can order powder easily from your own desktop, so there is no reason to use questionable powder.

I had a friend once who was then tasked with disposing of gunpowder seized in police operations. His department got some powder from an illegal fireworks factory. He poured the line of powder out and touched it off. Well, the powder went off... and took two of his fingers. It could have been much worse. Most likely it wasn't actually gunpowder, but we'll never know.

I would suggest getting some powder that you know the source of. It needs to be actual BLACK POWDER or a legitimate substitute. Brands to look for are Swiss, Scheutzen or Goex. Elephant will work. There are a few legitimate substitutes that some use like Pyrodex, Triple 7, and others that I am not familiar with. Load the gun up again with stuff you can be sure of and see if the double boom recurs. If it doesn't, then dispose of that stuff and never use it again.

Not all gunpowder is Black Powder. If you loaded your gun up with Bullseye and fired it, they might never find pieces of your gun. You won't be able to help with the search because you will quite possibly be blind and maybe dead. Smokeless powder is NOT for muzzleloaders... though I understand that some idiot designed one that can use some smokeless powders. That ain't your gun though.
 
Are we talking like, a pop BOOM because all of us should know what a cap sounds like vs the charge igniting

Or is it something obvious like you're firing under an overhang ?

If it what waksupi is saying then I've never heard of that and I can see it happening with a bad batch of powder or a spoiled sub
 
Most likely, you were experiencing a longer than usual "hang time". The first "boom" was the primer firing, then a short time later the powder charge fired. Wet conditions CAN cause this. It might also be an echo you are hearing. Hard to say for sure. I know of no way for a main charge in a muzzleloader to fire twice... which is not to say that it could not happen somehow.

Did you experience two instances of recoil when you fired it?
I think this is the best analysis of what happened. And I think the terrible weather and it’s affect on cold steel ie condensation, is what happened. Many thanks for the advice.
 
I'm hoping that Mr Minshall puts in an appearance here, but I've never shot less than 70gr of 1.5Fg in a .451 cal rifle - of the best quality available, currently Swiss.

'Dropping home hard' is also a new one on me. First the charge, then the card wad, and the bullet pushed down onto the charge and wad combo.

What kind of results are you getting at the other end?
 
Maybe a longshot but what you could be an echo caused by the conditions you were shooting in. I've noticed it happening in the woods at certain locations. That would be my guess.
 
I have had that happen also, sounds like a pop and boom. Wearing ear protection kinda muffles the sound, just wondering what was happening myself.
 
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Is this what you are using?

Ignition powder. This sounds like you are using 4F.

By 'fine' I'm guessing you were describing the granulation?
 
fine as in small / verry fine, or fine as in good? witch one is it?
 
It was Swiss no 3 powder, I called it “fine” as a general description. The powder load wad 61 grains which has always been sufficient and very accurate for the 50 yard range I use. Even with cleaning the bore between shots I could still feel a crud hence the bullet had to be tapped home, that is down to the premarked line engraved on the rod. I’m putting this down to the weather conditions.
 
I will relate a similar thing happen with a commercial longrifle I bought in the late 1960's.
I had been using it for a few shooting sessions. One day when I took it to a range I noticed it having a definite delay between the cap popping and the main charge ignition. It was not a severe delay but enough it could be noticed when I was on the trigger.
I ended up de-breaching it and found although the bore of the rifle was .45 caliber the patent breach diameter was about 3/8". This anti-chamber was not being properly cleaned using my normal cleaning procedure. It had a extensive build up of crud in the chamber. I cleaned that up and also found that the channel from the nipple to the anti-chamber was very small and slightly cruddy.
I used a Dremel tool and small bit to open the channel larger so I would be able to use a pipe cleaner from the nipple towards the anti-chamber for cleaning in the future.
I believe the small channel from nipple to anti-chamber was acting similar to a fuse and causing a detectable delay to main ignition.
After reassembling and using the rifle it was excellent from then on. I was also aware of the new cleaning procedure I would have to use from then on.
There are quite a few rifles being made today that have a similar patent breach area that could cause similar problems.
You might check that and see if it is a similar condition.
Barry
 
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