Double pouch pattern in Albert’s book??

[Artificer]

Well...... I applaud you for having the gumption to do a double pouch as your first project, but you just found out the reason why the holes for the stitches to stitch both pouches together should be aligned and awl punched in the two pieces of leather of the two pouches that will be sewn together, before you sew up the two pouches. Trust me, I have made worse mistakes than that over the years! :redface: :haha:

OK, you have one of two choices. The first and most distressing choice is to cut/remove the stitching from the two pouches; then mark/align/awl punch the holes in the two pieces of leather to sew the pouches together. Then sew up the pouches and sew them together.

The second choice is not much easier, but it can be done. First you must go ahead and turn the pouches inside out from where they are sewn together now. You could cut a piece of 1/4" or 3/8" plywood/thin board that would fit inside a pouch. Stick that in the pouch to mark the leather and punch the holes in the first pouch a little way into the wood. Then remove the wood and carefully open up the pouch as you awl punch the holes the rest of the way through the leather.

Then lay/align the newly punched pouch against the side of the other pouch it will be sewn to. You may or even probably want to clamp the pieces together, but you could hold it carefully. Use a fine point magic marker to go through the punched holes in the first pouch to mark the holes in the second pouch. Then stick the wood into the second pouch to begin awl punching the holes a little way into the wood and then taking the wood out and opening the pouch to finish punching the holes, as mentioned before.

Hope that is clear.

Gus

 

[Artificer]

Is this the stuff?
https://www.amazon.com/Lexol-E3008...517419248&sr=8-2&keywords=Lexol+restorer&th=1

It looks to be marketed primarily for use on the finished side of the leather, but if you suggest it's ok on the unfinished side, I'll go with it.

On many types of leather, as on furniture or in cars, there is no way to apply it on the rough side of the leather without ripping the leather off. So yes, it is used on the outer surface on those items. However, it is best to use it on the rough side of the leather.

Tandy sold it for many years in their stores, but don't seem to list it any more. It can still be found in Saddlery, Tack Shops and some Hardware stores, though.

It is normally found in the pump spray bottles as shown in the following link: http://www.lexol.com/

Gus

 

[MIOutdoorsman]

Well...... I applaud you for having the gumption to do a double pouch as your first project, but you just found out the reason why the holes for the stitches to stitch both pouches together should be aligned and awl punched in the two pieces of leather of the two pouches that will be sewn together, before you sew up the two pouches. Trust me, I have made worse mistakes than that over the years! :redface: :haha:

...yea... hind-sight is crystal clear now!

I'm going to go with something like your second choice. Since I'm going to try to use my overstitch wheel to mark the holes, I will probably work hard to get the MIDDLE of the two pouches aligned perfectly, and then use the overstitch wheel from that middle point out to each side. That should get my holes lined up in theory.

I had to use pliers to pull my needle through the holes on the "easy" parts that I've completed so far, even after using my awl, so I think this next stitch line is going to be a PITA.

Live and learn!

 

[BrownBear]

Even with the overstitch wheel, I had to follow up by darkening the little divots that it made with a dark pencil--I could barely see the little tiny pin pricks it made otherwise.

I left that out of my description, but you're right on the money. If pencil doesn't show up (it also rubs of easy), I'll use a brown fine-point Sharpie instead. Pretty well disappears beneath stitches or with the dying.

If you get serious about it, here is another solution that I like even better for big projects. They come in 8-, 4-, 2, and 1-prong versions. Forget the 1-prong but the others are handy. If you go that route someday, start a thread here on the site and I'll pass along advice and experience. Don't wanna confuse things right now.

 

[MIOutdoorsman]

One of the patterns in his book Is incorrect. When I discovered this i brought it to TC's attention and he checked it out and acknowledged the error. I suspect you are working with that pattern.

TC offered to send me a corrected pattern but I declined since I'd already fixed it.

I'm curious how you contacted TC, and whether he's on this forum or not? I'd like to get a copy of whichever pattern it was that he agreed was flawed. Having sewing the two pockets of this double, I no longer think that it's flawed--just more complicated than it first appeared because the wider inner-pieces are designed to form more of a pocket.

Anyway, if you are able to share his contact info, I'd appreciate it. I could send him a picture of the book so that he knows that I bought it. It's an excellent resource that, for me, is just the right amount of text versus pictures. I also love the photos of real bags in this book.

 

[Artificer]

...yea... hind-sight is crystal clear now!

I'm going to go with something like your second choice. Since I'm going to try to use my overstitch wheel to mark the holes, I will probably work hard to get the MIDDLE of the two pouches aligned perfectly, and then use the overstitch wheel from that middle point out to each side. That should get my holes lined up in theory.

I had to use pliers to pull my needle through the holes on the "easy" parts that I've completed so far, even after using my awl, so I think this next stitch line is going to be a PITA.

Live and learn!

Here is a tip I picked up from one of Eric Myall's Videos that might help you. (Eric was in charge of the Saddler's Shop at Colonial Williamsburg for many years and forgot more about leather working than most of us will ever know.)

When sewing two pieces of leather together in a long line of stitching, you can go through a set of holes and tie it off in a single knot every so often down the length of the stitching. This keeps the two pieces of leather in position when sewing them. The thread goes through the hole and each end is tied on the outside of the leather pieces. Then just cut the looped knots off as you get to them.

I assume you are going to stitch along the top of one side of each pouch when you join them together, along with some stitching down the sides? If so, you can use the center hole on the top line stitches to mark the center hole on the other line of stitches. Awl punch that hole in the second pouch and tie a knot holding the two pieces together. You could also do the same for a few more knots going down the line to better hold the pouches together when you magic marker ink the second pouch. Once you have the holes inked, you can cut the knots, stitch up each side and then the top line.

BTW, the BEST type of pliers I have found for leather work to pull needles through were a small pair of parallel jaw pliers I found in the fishing department at Wal Mart many years ago. The smaller size makes them much easier to use than full size parallel jaw pliers. I paid about Seven Bucks for them 20 years or more ago, but they have more then paid for themselves since.

Gus

 

[MIOutdoorsman]

Good tip Gus. I read a similar tip in TC Albert's book before I started (whew!), and now I'm a huge fan of tying those knot/keepers every so often.

For these individual pockets, I tied them at the bottom/center center of each run where I'd start my run, and then every 10 stitch holes up from there I used another tie. Then, as you suggested, I made my way up to the next know, clipped it, and move on.

This was particularly useful for these pockets because I had to bend the leather on the wider pieces in order to form the bulges in the pockets. Without those knots placed every inch or so, I don't know how I could have held it together!

 

[Artificer]

You are most welcome. Good luck and keep us posted as the work progresses. I'm sure others interested in learning to do leather work will also be interested.

Gus

 

[smo]

Thank you all. I wondered if this was the idea, but before cutting leather I wanted to make sure.

(Yes, these pieces get sewn toghether and then turned inside out.)

This will be my first sewing experience, let alone with leather! I’ll post pictures guys, but it’ll take me a while!

You picked a tough one to start with in my opinion...

I have the pattern cut out of thick leather then realized how hard it would be to turn and didn’t sew it together.

Watch your fingers! Good Luck on your project .

Have you got them sewn togrther and flipped yet?

 

[MIOutdoorsman]

Not yet.. Between work and kids, my craftsman desk doesn't get daily visits!

 

[smo]

That looks like Veg tanned leather, it going to be tough .

I would soak it in water first, hopefully it won’t be too bad.

 

[MIOutdoorsman]

Guys--I'm considering a very slight modification to the seam that connects the front and back pouches together. What do you think of this idea?

(I realize my picture is not 100% accurate, but hopefully you get the idea.)

In case it's not clear what I mean by "ball pusher":

Am I taking too much of a short cut by just leaving a seam gap? Will it look "unfinished?" Or will it be an ingenious little modification that serves a useful purpose??

Also--as I've never had one of these bags, will having the ball end of the pusher up high like that create too much of a bulge in the flap/cover?

I plan on using a hair-on piece of deer hide for the flap cover (probably glued to a piece of regular cowhide for sturdiness).

 

[Elnathan]

Might try making a prototype cloth before sewing up the leather to check the fit.

Might also think about making a short starter that is a bit smaller - you don't really need that huge ball - if it doesn't fit the way you want it to.

 

[MSW]

TXFlynHog, i like your idea of a little gap in which you store your short starter (and avoid having to cope with stitching which might or might not want to line up for you).

Most of my rifles have coned muzzles (a tirade for another day) so i don't use a short starter most of the time, but obn the guns that still need one, this would be a really useful feature.

Good luck with your project and

Make Good Smoke!

 

[Artificer]

First off, I have never seen such a modification done to a pouch, so there is a good bit of guesswork on my part.

How big is the diameter of the ball and the diameter of the longer short starter rod? Also, how thick is the leather you are using?

The larger the diameter of the ball, the more the flap is going to leave open space on the sides of the pouch. That probably won't matter standing or walking, but it might mean when trotting or running, that things could fall out of the sides of the pouch.

What do you plan on carrying in the front pouch? The Ball could get in the way of getting your hand in the smaller front pouch.

Not entirely sure how much difference it would make depending on the thickness of the leather. If you are not going to carry many heavy things in the front pouch and the leather is not too thin, it might be OK.

Perhaps the good news is that if it doesn't work out, it would not take much to put the short starter in the rear pouch and finish sewing across the top of where the front and rear pouches meet.

Gus

 

[MIOutdoorsman]

Thanks guys... I agree Gus--if it doesn't work out to be that great, I can always just sew it closed!

The starter that I have is approx 6" long, and the ball is probably 2" in diameter (I'm at the office, so unable to measure it).

As for the leather thickness, I can't exactly remember, except that I was following the recommendations in Albert's book when I bought it (I actually brought his book with me to Tandy leather), so I purchased the weight that he recommended.

I plan on gluing a piece of Axis-buck hide (with hair) on top of the leather closure flap, so that will add a little weight and thickness to the flap. I shot this Axis buck when I lived in TX, where "exotics" now roam free in parts of the state.

I also plan on incorporating a power horn on the straps of the bag. That means that the double pouch itself will need to hold some patches, balls, the ball starter, probably my flash powder (unless I eventually start using 2F in the pan), maybe a spare flint, and probably a small multi-tool.

I'm trying to keep the bag contents minimal. During hunting season if I use this pouch, it'll have speed loaders in it instead of the separate components.

 

[Artificer]

Just thought about something to consider.

If your leather is fairly thin, I think you are going to have at least some problems with sticking the long rod of the short starter back into the hole.

You could alleviate that problem one of two steps (or both):

1. Ensure the open space is enough to allow the long rod to easily enter. I would suggest if the short starter rod is a regular diameter like say 3/8 inch, then you would need to ensure the hole will allow at least a half inch rod.

2. After ensuring there is enough open space for the long rod of the short starter, you MIGHT consider wet forming the leather around the larger dowel size stuck into the hole.

Gus

 

[Artificer]

P.S. to above post: Wet forming the leather around a slightly larger diameter dowel would help keep the hole open when you take the short starter out and would be especially helpful to stick it back in the hole when done using it.

Gus

 

[longcruise]

I don't think you are making the one that was incorrect. I made that comment before seeing your pictures.

I did build that same one that you are working on and it's one of my favorites.

Look for a PM

 

[longcruise]

Ok, the double pouch pattern is the one that's incorrect!

My experience with this goes back at least ten years so please pardon my failed memory. :redface:

The one I'm referring to starts on page 114. The error is on page 117. The part labeled "double pouch pocket body cut 2".

Your clue is in the lower right corner of page 116. Note that the front, back and double (pg 117) need to have the same shape to go together correctly. But, as you can see, pattern on 117 is too wide.

It's all come back to me now.

The solution is to use the height measurement from pg 117 but other than that, use the same shape as the front and back.

Hope that's not too convoluted and understandable.