dovetail

[anika]

One of the other posters scared the bejeezes out me the other day with his post on cutting through his barrel filing in a dovetail. I haven't mounted the two forward ramrod pipes yet but I'm assuming that the middle one will put my lug for the sling swivel in the thinnest portion of my Rice swamped barrel. Should I solder the lug on and will it strong enough to hold. I have a dovetail forming chisel that allows me to cut a shallow mortise and raise the dovetail or should I just solder. odis

 

[bioprof]

Usually the ramrod pipes are pinned to the stock, not attached to the barrel. Do you mean barrel lugs?

I have heard of professional builders dovetailing barrel lugs into the thinnest part of a swamped barrel, but this goes against the advice of L.C. Rice. It kind of depends upon the weight of the barrel; i.e. A, B, C, or D weight and the amount of confidence that you have in your own skills. You might be able to position the barrel lugs so that they aren't right in the thinnest part of the barrel.

I will let others respond to your question about whether or not solder will hold. What kind of rifle are you building? This would determine whether or not you should try to dovetail or solder.

 

[LRB]

If you are really concerned, you might consider forming a lug with arms on the sides going a ways up the adjacent flats, then solder. That would give you at least twice as much contact surface for the solder. Bear in mind that the hole for the swivel pin needs to be a slot, and the wood needs extra relief to allow for wood shift with humidity changes. Just a thought. If a thin barrel, that is what I would do.

 

[anika]

I have already done my barrel pins I want the forward sling swivel to be in position so as it will lay across the middle pipe at rest. By the way I'm building a Bivins Lancaster. odis

 

[anika]

Its a C weight Rice in 58 cal. The lug that I purchased from track seems good so maybe I'll mig weld some tabs fore and aft to the base and sweat it on. odis

 

[billk]

I had Pecatonica install the lugs on my B profile Rice swamped barrel. When I got the barrel back I noticed that they had soldered the lugs. I thought they would have them dovetailed. Now after reading that dovetail post, I am glad they are soldered.
I guess I would just have to use the top flats to inlett the barrel and then turn it over to fit the lugs in the stock.
Billk

 

[Zonie]

When one remembers that the underlugs on the barrel are really there to pin the stock to the barrel it is easy to understand that these are really not under a lot of pressure or tension.
The exception might be the rearmost underlug and one that is being used to mount a sling swivel.

With this in mind, a good low temperature silver solder (500- 700 degree) should be up to the task IF there is quite a bit of surface area between the barrel and the underlug.

By this I mean, a 1/2 inch long piece of 1/8 inch thick stock sitting on its (1/8 inch) edge and soldered to the barrel only has .063 square inches soldered to the barrel while a 5/16 inch wide X 1 /2 inch long piece (cut down to 1/8 inch wide up above the joint) has .156 square inches soldered to the barrel. This is a 247 percent increase in engagement and in strength over the little 1/8 inch piece sitting on its edge.

 

[Charles D. Prokopp]

Being the builder who got a scare, that's good advice, Zonie. My plan, when the new barrel finally arrives, is to file a VERY shallow depression in the bottom flat...about 1/16" deep. The lug I have already thinned down to the same thickness. Then, I'll just silver solder it in place, giving a flush mount so I won't have to mess around with any more inletting on my finished stock.

 

[Birddog6]

Well, if you are going to cut out a 1/16" place in the barrel, you just as well dovetail that in too & sweat the solder under the lug. It dang sure would be strong then ! :wink:

I was just thinking, don't know the barrel length you are using, but if it is a 38" C swamped barrel in .54 cal in that Bivins, you are gonna just love that rifle. The rifle will balance wonderfully & should weigh about 7.5# or so. That is what I deer hunt with & it is a great rifle. :thumbsup:

 

[William Joy]

A soft soldered lug will be o.k. It will not come loose if done correctly. Be carefull with the heat!!. Other option would be a 0.030 dovetail and some red treadlock.

 

[MSW]

otis, i'd go with the solder, using the technique laid out by Zonie. i've tried this with good result with a .40cal A profile Colerain barrel.

good luck with your build!

 

[anika]

Thanks MSW. Plan to weld some tabs to the sling lug and solder it to the barrel. After some initial screw ups have settled into a groove as of late and am making some good progress. odis

 

[renovato]

Brownells makes some very strong low temperature solder specifically for gunsmithing applications. I forget what it's called, but it's easy to find on their website. I'd avoid pipe solder and such. It's pretty soft stuff.

 

[Zonie]

I thought it may interest some folks to know that the old 50/50 (lead/tin) solder has a tensile strength of 5,500 PSI and a shear strength of 4,700 PSI. This melts at 421 degrees F.

There is also a 60 percent tin/40 percent lead solder which has a tensile strength of 7,600 PSI and a shear strength of 5,600 PSI. This melts at 374 degrees F.

A lead free solder made of 97 percent Tin, 2.75 percent Copper and 0.25 percent Silver has a tensile strength of 11,520 with a shear strength of 8,900 PSI. This melts at 597 degrees F.

Even using the shear strength of the 50/50 solder, if one was to have a base size which would produce .156 square inches it would take a side load of 733 pounds to dislodge the underlug.

Of course I would rather use one of the silver bearing solders just for insurance. :grin: