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Drilling out a nipple
- Thread starter MikeW319
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stone knife
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Making the hole bigger or like a hot shot nipple?
playfarmers
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Use real black powder or get a "Magnum Spitfire" or a "Hotshot" nipple.
SgtSchutzen
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The Pyrodex is your problem. Real black powder works alot better.
You need hot caps with pyrodex standard caps can be a problem.Cci magnums will work well.Drilling out the nipple can cause accuracy problems just make sure the nipple and the drum don't have a blockage.A large nipple hole caused by erosion is why a nipple is replaced.The comments about real black and better nipples are good advice.
Mike:
Do not drill out your guns nipple.
If the hole is too large the high gas pressure will blow your hammer back possibly damaging your lock.
If you must shoot Pyrodex, do as the others have suggested and buy a Hot Shot or Magnum Spitfire nipple and look around for some "Magnum" percussion caps. The RWS percussion caps are also good.
If you don't have some, buy some pipe cleaners (the kind to clean a smoking pipe) and after wetting one, run it down thru the flame channel hole that connects the nipple with the bore of the gun. Often, that small hole will become partially plugged and cleaning it out will help.
Also, if you are loading the gun with a spent cap left on the nipple or with the hammer resting on the nipple, change your loading method.
When your loading, the nipple should be clear and the hammer should be at half cock.
This will allow the loose powder to be blown back thru the flame channel so it comes to rest right under the nipple. In this location, even a weak percussion cap can ignite it.
I've read that some folks say the nipple should be blocked by the hammer or a spent cap when loading because by doing that there is less chance of some "glowing ember" being fanned and setting off the new powder charge.
To this, I say "Bull Pockey" and "Hooey"!
Unless a person is loading with paper cartridges there is no "glowing embers" left in the bore after firing the gun.
My last comment about Pyrodex is that it does take a higher temperature to ignite it and sometimes, even if I'm doing everything correctly there will be a noticeable delay between the cap firing and the gun going off.
Unfortunately, "tis" the nature of the powder.
Do not drill out your guns nipple.
If the hole is too large the high gas pressure will blow your hammer back possibly damaging your lock.
If you must shoot Pyrodex, do as the others have suggested and buy a Hot Shot or Magnum Spitfire nipple and look around for some "Magnum" percussion caps. The RWS percussion caps are also good.
If you don't have some, buy some pipe cleaners (the kind to clean a smoking pipe) and after wetting one, run it down thru the flame channel hole that connects the nipple with the bore of the gun. Often, that small hole will become partially plugged and cleaning it out will help.
Also, if you are loading the gun with a spent cap left on the nipple or with the hammer resting on the nipple, change your loading method.
When your loading, the nipple should be clear and the hammer should be at half cock.
This will allow the loose powder to be blown back thru the flame channel so it comes to rest right under the nipple. In this location, even a weak percussion cap can ignite it.
I've read that some folks say the nipple should be blocked by the hammer or a spent cap when loading because by doing that there is less chance of some "glowing ember" being fanned and setting off the new powder charge.
To this, I say "Bull Pockey" and "Hooey"!
Unless a person is loading with paper cartridges there is no "glowing embers" left in the bore after firing the gun.
My last comment about Pyrodex is that it does take a higher temperature to ignite it and sometimes, even if I'm doing everything correctly there will be a noticeable delay between the cap firing and the gun going off.
Unfortunately, "tis" the nature of the powder.
Hello Mike,
Misfires can be caused by more than one thing. Not all nipples are created equal. If misfires are a problem on a newly aquired rifle after a good cleaning, I check the orfice size. If the orfice in the nipple is so small that a common paperclip wire cannot pass through, I use a dremel tool with a small carbide tip and open the hole up to .035 inch.
I purchased a used .45 cal Charles Daly barrel at Friendship. I cleaned it up and dropped it in an Invest Arms stock to give it a try. I started with .45 grains Pyrodex and had hangfires. I switched to T7 and hangfires, but not as bad. Next I tried Goex and it was better, but still a little delay. I decided to replace the nipple with a new Spitfire nipple. Before installing the new nipple I opened up the orfice to .035 with the dremel tool. I shot all the powders as before with no hangfires. I can shoot any caps with good reliability.
I have purchased rifles with nipples that had much larger holes in the nipple, over 1/16 and I replace them with new nipples. I have some concern that to large a hole can result in blowback.
I will be shooting the Charles Daly barrel in a match Sunday.
Misfires can be caused by more than one thing. Not all nipples are created equal. If misfires are a problem on a newly aquired rifle after a good cleaning, I check the orfice size. If the orfice in the nipple is so small that a common paperclip wire cannot pass through, I use a dremel tool with a small carbide tip and open the hole up to .035 inch.
I purchased a used .45 cal Charles Daly barrel at Friendship. I cleaned it up and dropped it in an Invest Arms stock to give it a try. I started with .45 grains Pyrodex and had hangfires. I switched to T7 and hangfires, but not as bad. Next I tried Goex and it was better, but still a little delay. I decided to replace the nipple with a new Spitfire nipple. Before installing the new nipple I opened up the orfice to .035 with the dremel tool. I shot all the powders as before with no hangfires. I can shoot any caps with good reliability.
I have purchased rifles with nipples that had much larger holes in the nipple, over 1/16 and I replace them with new nipples. I have some concern that to large a hole can result in blowback.
I will be shooting the Charles Daly barrel in a match Sunday.
I bought a used .58 cal rifle recently that someone had drilled the nipple out to almost 1/8 inch. As I am more used to flintlocks I didn't think much of it. I fired a couple shots with a modest powder charge (60 gr FF) under a PRB and noticed the cap was completely gone after firing. Hmmmm. Like an idiot, I upped the charge to see what would happen (80gr FF under a 540 gr mini). I had to pick some pieces of blown cap out of my arm. I later noticed the nipple had split also.
I don't modify nipples. There is a reason for that tiny hole, to keep the pressure in the barrel where it belongs. I would look for other causes of ignition problems as others have mentioned.
I don't modify nipples. There is a reason for that tiny hole, to keep the pressure in the barrel where it belongs. I would look for other causes of ignition problems as others have mentioned.
Dave Rosenthal
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CLEAN the rifle the right way and you're problems will cease in most cases!
Dave
Dave
ohio ramrod
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Some nipples do have a very fine flash hole giving problems. But too large of a hole is more common. I drill out the ampco nipples to about .025 to .28 and have no problems, but then I only shoot black powder, no substitutes! :idunno:
I had some misfires and I used a breech scraper to get the ick out, use a small pin to clean the nipple out, the hole on the bottom is very small and can block up easy. Also, I had some bad caps that were old (not sure how old) and switched to new ones. Also, make sure as others said that there isn't a spent cap in the hammer.
zimmerstutzen
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Old/bad caps can leave crud in the entrance cone of the nipple, which a nipple pick should remove.
You didn't day what kind of gun you have, but many percussion shooters, don't realize the rather contorted maze their flash channel represents. For instance a drum and nipple in a CVA mountain rifle. The flame must proceed down through the nipple, make a 90 degree turn through the drum, then burn into a small coned chamber in the center of the breach, make another 90 turn and get to the main charge ahead of the breech. Hopefully lighting some grains of powder along the way. In a TB percussion breech plug, it is nearly as bad.
These flash channels need to be open enough to permit grains of powder to work back to the flash channel to meet the flame from the cap.
A host or reasons can complicate this simple procedure.
You didn't day what kind of gun you have, but many percussion shooters, don't realize the rather contorted maze their flash channel represents. For instance a drum and nipple in a CVA mountain rifle. The flame must proceed down through the nipple, make a 90 degree turn through the drum, then burn into a small coned chamber in the center of the breach, make another 90 turn and get to the main charge ahead of the breech. Hopefully lighting some grains of powder along the way. In a TB percussion breech plug, it is nearly as bad.
These flash channels need to be open enough to permit grains of powder to work back to the flash channel to meet the flame from the cap.
A host or reasons can complicate this simple procedure.
No ! :shocked2: you really don't want to or need to drill out a nipple . There's to many after market replacement nipples out there , that are designed to throw a better flame than most oem nipples . You can also use a hotter cap to match .
I've seen hammer blowback on stock nipples just because of to much of a charge . Can't imagine how much more the possibilities are with a drilled out nipple .
Proper cleaning and loading tecs. Make a huge difference .
Out of thousand plus shots I've had a small hand full (10?) hangfires and one misfire which was totally my fault . Ran a dry patch after a half dzn shots and plugged the flame port with soot .
:redface:
Shoot safe and have fun .
I've seen hammer blowback on stock nipples just because of to much of a charge . Can't imagine how much more the possibilities are with a drilled out nipple .
Proper cleaning and loading tecs. Make a huge difference .
Out of thousand plus shots I've had a small hand full (10?) hangfires and one misfire which was totally my fault . Ran a dry patch after a half dzn shots and plugged the flame port with soot .
:redface:
Shoot safe and have fun .
Guest
This is good advise here....do not drill out the nipple,besides being dangerous it will affect accuracy in a bad way,I use Ampco bronze nipples they have a tiny vent hole,I use real black powder and have very few problems,last time out 40 shots without a misfire
An additional problem with Pyrodex, besides the higher ignition temperature, is the large granule size. That is too large to flow through the small diameter flash channel of most factory built rifles with patent breeches. If you must use Pyrodex I'd suggest you try the "P" grade instead of "RS" grade. Pyrodex "P" has a much smaller granual size, will flow into the flash channel directly under the nipple and hang fires or misfires should be eliminated. The increase in pressure will be slight but if it concerns you just reduce the maximum load by 10%.
If I were to drill out anything it would be the flash channel, not the nipple. I have enlarged several rifle flash channels to use a 10x32 plug screw instead of the 8x32 original and it seems a great improvement in eliminating hang fires.
If I were to drill out anything it would be the flash channel, not the nipple. I have enlarged several rifle flash channels to use a 10x32 plug screw instead of the 8x32 original and it seems a great improvement in eliminating hang fires.
Herb
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Do not drill out the nipple. Pawlak, who invented the Pyrodex powders, also invented the "Hot Shot" nipple for better ignition. TC makes one. They really make a difference. You do not need magnum primers, they are not the problem. Look at a Triple 7 bottle (though you are using Pyrodex) and they show their loads with CCI#11 primers, not magnums. Zimmerstutzen described the problem, but their is no easy way to do what he said: 'These flash channels need to be open enough to permit grains of powder to work back to the flash channel to meet the flame from the cap.' That is, enlarge the hole from the bore back to the hole under the nipple.
Coyote Joe correctly describes the problems with Pyrodex powder, the RS (2F) grade. I do not understand what he means about enlarging a flash channel from 8x32 original to 10x32. My recommendation is, do not drill anything out.
I found a reference on a Hodgdon web site about using Pyrodex P as a booster charge for Pyrodex RS, but can't find it now.
Coyote Joe correctly describes the problems with Pyrodex powder, the RS (2F) grade. I do not understand what he means about enlarging a flash channel from 8x32 original to 10x32. My recommendation is, do not drill anything out.
I found a reference on a Hodgdon web site about using Pyrodex P as a booster charge for Pyrodex RS, but can't find it now.
Herb
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Here is the "powder chamber" in my hooked breech flintlock Hawken I built. It is the smoked dowel end. It was .360 in diameter with a sharp edge and would bridge Goex 2F, Swiss 2 and Swiss 1 1/2. I finally drilled it out to .440 and polished it and now it works well.
I'll post a photo of that chamber later. You can check the powder chamber in your rifle by using a wooden dowel and tapering the end, like a wooden pencil point, and turn it into that hole. This will show you the diameter of that hole. Then turn the dowel down to that diameter and turn it in to show you the length. There is not much you can do about an assembled factory rifle except to know that to prevent powder bridging, use a finer powder (Pyrodex P or Goex 3F) and bump the butt hard on the ground to settle the powder down in that chamber before seating the ball.
I'll post a photo of that chamber later. You can check the powder chamber in your rifle by using a wooden dowel and tapering the end, like a wooden pencil point, and turn it into that hole. This will show you the diameter of that hole. Then turn the dowel down to that diameter and turn it in to show you the length. There is not much you can do about an assembled factory rifle except to know that to prevent powder bridging, use a finer powder (Pyrodex P or Goex 3F) and bump the butt hard on the ground to settle the powder down in that chamber before seating the ball.
Herb
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Here is a Hawken Squirrel Breech that I am using to make a .50 caliber scaled down Hawken rifle. This is the powder chamber, .310 or about 5/16" in diameter, and shallow. I drilled this out to about .440 and deepened it a little, then polished the chamber and the hole leading to under the nipple. You can see how far that cap flame has to travel to get to the powder at the end of the bore.
After figuring out that storing my deer rifle, a .50 caliber CVA Hawken Carbine (24-inch barrel, 6½ lbs. of weight overall) sitting on the butt of the stock created a situation wherein the oil and anything else in the barrel slowly oozed down the barrel and settled in the flash-channel and in the drum under the nipple, I decided to change things. As a result, I stopped having ignition problems with my cap-lock Hawken Carbine.
The first thing I did was to store the rifle with the muzzle DOWN, sitting on a folded up paper towel to absorb any oil or drippings that might come out of the muzzle.
Prior to changing the position of the rifle to the muzzle down position for storage, I always had to shoot at least 2 caps and sometimes, even then, I had to use a nipple pick and swab out the barrel with alcohol to clear away the oil which wet the powder and caused the rifle NOT to fire.
Now... I only need to shoot one cap (no powder) through the nipple of my cap-lock with the rifle aimed at a leaf or something nearby that will indicated the flash-channel and barrel are clear... and then, I'm good-to-go.
I also bought a small, blue air-compressor with 2 small air tanks attached on the compressor together with a pair of pressure gauges at Harbor Freight ($99.95) which I use to blow 100 lbs of air-pressure down the barrel with the drum's clean-out screw removed from the clean-out hole in the drum to eliminate any debris or any lubrication remaining in the barrel, flash-channel, in the drum under the nipple and in the nipple itself.
Last, I put the air-hose's nozzle on the nipple and blow it out good to insure it and the flash-channel is clear. Then I re-insert the drum's clean out screw and I'm "good-to-go" to the rifle range.
This works for me and has never failed to clear the rifle so it fired on the first try... an important function in a HUNTING rifle, but nice at the rifle range as well. :wink:
I use real black powder... my hunting load is 70 grains of Swiss FFFg with a Hornady round, patched rifle ball and a .016" denim patch lubed with a mixture of bee's wax and salad oil... and I limit my shooting range to 80 yards for deer.
This load ignites easily now that all the oil is removed from the drum, nipple, flash-channel and barrel before the load is put into the barrel.
Strength & Honor...
Ron T.
The first thing I did was to store the rifle with the muzzle DOWN, sitting on a folded up paper towel to absorb any oil or drippings that might come out of the muzzle.
Prior to changing the position of the rifle to the muzzle down position for storage, I always had to shoot at least 2 caps and sometimes, even then, I had to use a nipple pick and swab out the barrel with alcohol to clear away the oil which wet the powder and caused the rifle NOT to fire.
Now... I only need to shoot one cap (no powder) through the nipple of my cap-lock with the rifle aimed at a leaf or something nearby that will indicated the flash-channel and barrel are clear... and then, I'm good-to-go.
I also bought a small, blue air-compressor with 2 small air tanks attached on the compressor together with a pair of pressure gauges at Harbor Freight ($99.95) which I use to blow 100 lbs of air-pressure down the barrel with the drum's clean-out screw removed from the clean-out hole in the drum to eliminate any debris or any lubrication remaining in the barrel, flash-channel, in the drum under the nipple and in the nipple itself.
Last, I put the air-hose's nozzle on the nipple and blow it out good to insure it and the flash-channel is clear. Then I re-insert the drum's clean out screw and I'm "good-to-go" to the rifle range.
This works for me and has never failed to clear the rifle so it fired on the first try... an important function in a HUNTING rifle, but nice at the rifle range as well. :wink:
I use real black powder... my hunting load is 70 grains of Swiss FFFg with a Hornady round, patched rifle ball and a .016" denim patch lubed with a mixture of bee's wax and salad oil... and I limit my shooting range to 80 yards for deer.
This load ignites easily now that all the oil is removed from the drum, nipple, flash-channel and barrel before the load is put into the barrel.
Strength & Honor...
Ron T.
Herb, I'll try to explain what I meant by "drilling out the flash channel", that is the hole which connects the nipple to the powder chamber. That channel is drilled across below the nipple and the outer end is plugged with what some call a "clean out screw". On T/C rifles that screw is an 8x32 size and the channel itself is just the diameter of an 8x32 tap drill, or about .136". Enlarging it to a 10x32 tap drill opens it to .159". That may not seem like a great difference but it enlarges the cross sectional area by 37%. It's an easy modification to make with just a drill, proper size bit and a tap.
The Italian clones of T/C are of course metric but about the same size and they too can be drilled and tapped to 10x32.
Of course the gun still has to be properly cleaned and stored without a quart of oil in the bore. Some folks seem to think "cleaning a gun" means "changing the oil". If oil doesn't actually dribble out the muzzle they haven't put enough in. :haha:
The Italian clones of T/C are of course metric but about the same size and they too can be drilled and tapped to 10x32.
Of course the gun still has to be properly cleaned and stored without a quart of oil in the bore. Some folks seem to think "cleaning a gun" means "changing the oil". If oil doesn't actually dribble out the muzzle they haven't put enough in. :haha:
