Dropping Cast Roundballs

[Ohioan]

Well, I've heard of people dropping roundballs out of their molds into a bucket of water.
I've always just dropped them onto a couple of soft t-shirts.
Well, I got a bit inquisitive and decided to do some experimenting.

I got my Lee double cavity .490 mould out, warmed up and seasoned. I heated 5 lbs of lead to a "9" in a Lee Pro-20 pot.

I cast ten balls that I set aside.
Then, I cast 20 balls in a row and dropped them onto two XL t-shirts that were crumbled up on the bench.

Then, I cast 20 more balls and dropped them into a 5 gallon bucket of water. Each ball made a "thunk" when it hit bottom.

I let the balls cool off for a while then mic'd each for it diameter and weighed each one.

I made two charts, one for weight and one for diameter. "Wet" identifies balls dropped in the water. "Dry" identifies balls dropped on T-Shirts.

Well the average weight and diameter was only a thousanth or so off, the "wet" balls are more consistent in their weight and diameter.

Then, I took 2 wets and 2 drys and did a hardness test. I took a wet and a dry and placed them in a vice, the two balls against eachother and smashed them with the vice. The dry balls had a larger deformation in them meaning the wet balls were harder.

So, from my limited experiment, dropping balls directly from the mold into a bucket of water creates a more uniform run of balls.

 

[spud]

Nice short run SPC charts

 

[nchawkeye]

Dang....That's good info...I just drop mine into a muffin tin....Ran enough a couple of months back to last me the following year....Now I'm going to have to try dropping in water....Thanks... :thumbsup:

 

[paulvallandigham]

Lead castings also harden with age. You can temper lead by dumping cast bullets out of the molds into water, or just let them sit around for more than 6 months. Or, some people heat a cookie pan full of bullets up in their oven at 350 degrees for an hour and then let them cool down. That also seems to temper the bullets or balls.

 

[Darkgael]

I can understand the difference in hardness. I wonder whether any difference in weight can be attributed to the quenching or not. The roundballs have all the lead that they are going to get as they drop from the mould. If there is a weight difference, it happens before they are dropped.(Seems to me)
Pete

 

[paulvallandigham]

You are correct, Peter. The first ball that was dropped into the water and came up a grain shorter than average is an good example of how the weight may not be up to standard until the mold gets properly and thoroughly heated by casting a few balls. On his graph, you can notice how uniform his later cast balls are. Dropping them into water is not going to change the weight.

 

[Bon Sauvage]

Thank you for the post! I'd like to add that those amongst us who are intending to cast 'pure' lead bullets into a bucket of water in the hopes of hardening them will be disappointed. Pure lead meeting ASTM B29 (99.94% lead) or Fed Spec QQ-L-171e (Grade A and Grade C 99.9% lead) does not contain the amount of antimony required to harden using the quench method. I had wonderful results hardening wheel weight bullet metal when casting bullets for my 45-70 by droping them in water straight from the mold and also by quenching them in water after soaking them in the oven for an hour at just below their melt temperature.


Ogre

 

[Ohioan]

I should've been a little clearer on my procedure.

THE NUMBER LISTED IS MERELY AN IDENTIFIER FOR EACH BALL, NOT THE ORDER IN WHICH THEY WERE CAST.

Yes, dropping them in water doesn't have a whole lot to do with weight. But, I ran 30 balls through the mold before I started dropping them in water.

My alloy is of unknown quality. I suspect, since they are mic'ing larger than .490 and are lighter than the standard 178 gr. that there is an excess of tin in the mix. I'm not sure what effect this would have on the weight difference between castings.

I've read in other articles dealing with casting projectiles for modern guns that true accuracy fanatics quench the balls, then store them in the freezer to maintain their hardness. The belief is the more consistent the greater the accuracy.

I'll see if I can find that information. IT was all a bit scientific for me. Lots of big words and such. I like graphics, as you can see by most of my posts.

Another thing to consider in my procedure is the time in between castings. I normally try and keep the mold as close to the pot as I can at all times. When dropping the cast balls in the t-shirt, the mold never went farther than about 6-8 in. from the pot. It stayed hotter.
But, when I dropped them into the water the mold went as far as 3 ft away. (I'm waving the mold around in the air basically) To keep the balls from smacking the bottom of the bucket I was dropping them from about an inch over the bucket. Next time, I will place something in the bottom of the bucket cushion the balls.

I think the next time I cast, I'm going to try dropping in Ice water and water from the faucet. Take water temp readings.

 

[Blizzard of '93]

I've read in other articles dealing with casting projectiles for modern guns that true accuracy fanatics quench the balls, then store them in the freezer to maintain their hardness. The belief is the more consistent the greater the accuracy.

I'll see if I can find that information. IT was all a bit scientific for me. Lots of big words and such. I like graphics, as you can see by most of my posts.

and you actually ain't an 'accuracy fanatic'? :grin:

 

[GreyWhiskers]

Thanks for posting your results. I'm always interested in other's results with casting. :hatsoff: GW

 

[Headhunter]

Thats good stuff to know there buddy.

Thanks,

Headhunter

 

[ssettle]

I've heard of BPCR shooters dropping bullets into water, fact is I did it myself. I was also told that water dropping would harden lead. Seems to me that soft lead is what you want for round balls. Most BPCR shooters harden their lead with other metal additives to a certain degree. I myself stopped the water thing, water and lead not good near one another. :shake: Later Ssettle

 

[Stumpkiller]

What he said. I drop mine onto two neoprene mouse pads in a pie tin. Water near molten lead is bad medicine. :nono: Steam explosions make blackpowder look like stale Pyrodex by comparison. :shocked2:

 

[Runner]

I drop into water when casting. I prepare enough lead for the run before starting. I cast until I have to add lead to the pot. I let the pot cool down, and then I put the rejects and sprues in the pot. Any moisture is gone long before molten temps are reached.
If the bucket was above the pot where water could spill into the lead, then there would be a danger. If you drop 5 pounds of molten lead into a five gallon bucket of cold water, all you get is a hiss and a steam cloud. A bucket of water should be close by when you are casting just in case it is needed, even if you don't drop the bullets into it.

 

[paulvallandigham]

My casting pot is on a bench, while a bucket is on the floor next to the stool I sit on. If I can't bend over that far, I will put the bucket on a small stool so it will be about level with my knee. The sprues get dropped into a box on the bench, next to the pot. The balls or bullets go into the bucket of water, with the mold held close to limit the amount of splash. I don't need to get wet, in the process, and I certainly don't want water anywhere near that pot of molten lead!

 

[Ohioan]

Like everyone else, the pot is on a table, the bucket is on the floor.

That's why I said that the mold travels around 3 feet from the pot. There'd have to be an awefully big splash for water to get into my pot.

I understand the steam explosion danger, that's why A. I wear leather gloves B. I wear safety goggles when casting. I keep safety a top priority.

 

[Deadeye]

Put an old towel over the bucket with a slit cut in it for the bullets to fall thru, no water will splash back. This is a waste of time for muzzleloader balls or bullets, pure lead will not harden, nor change diameter or weight.
It works for alloys containing antimony for bullets to be used in cartridge guns.
An old cotton towel or two works fine for dropping your balls and bullets on.

 

[Stumpkiller]

I drop into water when casting. I prepare enough lead for the run before starting. I cast until I have to add lead to the pot. I let the pot cool down, and then I put the rejects and sprues in the pot. Any moisture is gone long before molten temps are reached.
If the bucket was above the pot where water could spill into the lead, then there would be a danger. If you drop 5 pounds of molten lead into a five gallon bucket of cold water, all you get is a hiss and a steam cloud. A bucket of water should be close by when you are casting just in case it is needed, even if you don't drop the bullets into it.

No thanks. I don't think throwing a bucket of water onto an electric lead furnace I'm standing near is something I want to try. Sand, maybe. Or a Halon fire extinguisher.

No problem at all dropping hot, even molten lead into water. Remember the Chemistry mantra? "Always add acid." Same effect. Drop acid into water, not the other way around. Drop water into that lead pot, get a drop splashed up into the mold and then pour lead into it (small hand-grenade in mold handels) - and we all know from time-lapse images that dropping something round into water shoots a recripocal drop straight up . . . towards the mold, spill water on a lead ingot and then toss same into the lead pot. The danger is when you do something to get water UNDER the molten lead - like in a mold or water trapped in a odd piece of scrap lead. The steam explosion tosses lead like stomping in a puddle.

Why do it? If you chill the lead it may shrink too fast, suck the sprue, frost up. It's an unnecessary risk to have water near a lead pot or furnace. Drop the lead into a bucket of wood ashes if you want a really nice result. Pour them out when cool.

And if you can prove dropping a ball into water vs. not changes it's weight (see the first graph) then you have a future in the cold fision business. You've converted matter into something else.

I still say having water near molten lead is like leaving the cartridges in the revolver when cleaning the pistol's barrel. A mistake that can be easily avoided.

 

[xxgrampa]

hi ho oHIan,

gotta go with paul on this one. what the graph shows is, the mold takes at least 3o balls to come up to casting temp.. that is; the first thirty were not uniform. the later balls were more uniform in weight and dia as the mold heated up..

on the plus side, didn't think it took that many to bring the mold up to temp.. thanks for the info.. :thumbsup:

..ttfn..grampa..

 

[xxgrampa]

PS.. if you want to do a poor mans heat treating of the balls by dropping them in water. get a bag of cheap sponges, float them in the bucket. when the ball drops on the sponges they will foll over and drop the ball gently to the bottom of said bucket.

howsomever, to make the balls harden in that fashion, the alloy must have some antimoney in it's composision. a little arsenic wouldn't hurt either.

an esier way to make hard balls is to use wheel weights. cheaper too. :grin: :grin:

..ttfn..grampa..