Dry Fire

[brpc]

I am dry firing my Rogers and Spencer with the cylinder in and the nipples removed.

Does anyone see any downside here?

 

[Pete Gaimari]

Shouldn't be any.

 

[m-g willy]

I would check where the hammer hits on the frame or cylinder, and the hammer itself for any peening After a few times of dry firing.

 

[CaptainKirk]

What Willie said.
Something is gonna give; either the frame or the hammer, and the softer metal will peen over.
I would suggest making some snap caps. You could do this by drilling out small pieces of wooden dowel to fit snugly over the nipples, and using a leather punch, snip out small plugs of rubber or silicone sheet the same diameter and glue them to the back side of the snap caps. This should cushion the blow. With any luck, you won't shatter the dowels or drive pieces into the nipples.
(I've got this all figured out, but have yet to try it.) :idunno:

 

[Zonie]

Well, I know some of you won't believe me but all of the cap and ball revolvers are designed to have the hammer bottom out on the frame.

If everything is working like it should, the hammer will never hit the end of the nipple. It should stop with about .002-.015 clearance.

The caps shell is about .005-.006 thick and the priming compound is about .030-.040 thick.
This means when the cap is seated on the nipple, the rear of the cap is standing about .035-.046 above the end of the nipple where it is easily hit by the falling hammer.

Before you guys start telling me about mushroomed nipples that were caused by dry firing make sure you are speaking of revolvers.
Nothing I said about the hammer not hitting the nipple applies if we are speaking of percussion rifles or single shot percussion pistols with a side lock. The hammer on both of these muzzleloading guns will indeed hit the nipple and mushroom (or fracture) the nipple if they are dry fired.

 

[CaptainKirk]

Sooooo....you're saying you can dry-fire a C&B revolver WITH nipples installed, and not damage the nipples or the hammer?
Not that I doubt you; just I'd never have the guts to try it.
Old habits die hard....

 

[Pete Gaimari]

If the nipple is adjusted right, but most of them aren't.

I said it was safe without the nipple to be on the safe side.

 

[CaptainKirk]

Just seems wrong to me, Pete...that energy needs to go somewhere, and normally that "somewhere" is the cap, followed by the cushion of the backblast against the hammer.
Not that you wouldn't be able to sneak one in now & then....
But it would seem that a hammer bottoming out on a frame repeatedly would have to absorb that energy. And show up...somewhere...down the line? :idunno:

As the saying goes..."That's just...wrong."

 

[mykeal]

Very true. The energy has to go somewhere, but it isn't necessarily into deforming the metal. If the parts are properly hardened the energy turns into heat, not strain (strain is the engineering term for deformation of mass). And there's so much matter absorbing the heat that it doesn't measurably increase the temperature of the metal so you'd never notice it.

Also, the amount of deformation, if any (assuming parts not properly hardened), in a revolver frame or hammer is spread over a very large area in comparison to the area at the tip of a nipple. The noticeable deformation of a nipple would occur much sooner than that of a revolver frame or hammer.

 

[Pete Gaimari]

Just seems wrong
As the saying goes..."That's just...wrong."

Only in your mind. The gun was designed to operate like that. Even if there was some slight wear after a gazillion shots.(which I doubt) All you'd need to do is adjust the nipple for the new clearance, and your back to spec.

 

[CoyoteJoe]

Read Zonie's explaination again, he has it right. IF, big IF, the revolver is set up properly and using the proper nipples, the hammer does not touch the nipple but bottoms out on the frame. Dry firing with or without nipples should do no harm. As Mykeal said the impact is spread over a very large area of hammer and frame.

 

[CaptainKirk]

I would rather be wrong and sleep nights. :wink:

 

[cmdrted]

This may seem over simple but a little contact cement and a small piece of leather on the hammer seems like it might work. the contact cement is easily removed with a small alcohol pad. This would ease the mind on the hammer hitting the frames and would be cushioned by the small piece of leather.

 

[Pete Gaimari]

I would rather be wrong and sleep nights. :wink:

Well, if you're going to lose sleep over it.

I sleep like a baby, and my guns are fine with it.



Just so you'll feel better. Get a thin piece of leather and put it where the hammer strikes the frame. In the process of doing that you'll see what a big area it is. The whole length of the hammer.

 

[hawkeye2]

What Zonie says is completely correct except most of the used Italian revolvers that I have seen that have much use show marks on the hammer from contacting the nipple. I don't think they spend much time worying about tolerances and clearaces. Continued impact of metal against metal will cause crystalization and work hardening which will eventually cause a fracture of a part, usually the hammer. There is a very simple solution if you want to dry fire. Take a nipple to the local DIY auto parts store and pick up some vacuume tubing that is a snug fit on the nipple. Get the black neoprene tubing, not the translucent type. You can buy a foot which is a lifetime supply for next to nothing. Cut it into 6 piecs just as long as you can possibly make them and still have your cylinder turn. This will protect nipples, hammer, and frame and make dry fireing quiter too. Now get a good night's sleep