easiest to clean powder

[paulvallandigham]

Othe Black Powders, Swiss seems to produce the smallest amount of residue. However, if OP wads are use to seal bore gases in the barrel, I have found little difference using Goex, in either FFg or FFFg grades. Without the OP wads, FFFg powder seems to leave less residue. I suspect the same situation occurs with Wano, Graf, and Schutzen brand black powders. The only time I have fired any of the subs has been in other guy's guns, and I don't have any experience in cleaning them. I do know, from watching the guns cleaned, that they can build crud, and require a wire brush to break the crud free. Soap and water are needed, with pyrodex, and the other subs. Then, if you use sabots, or lead conicals, you also have to work the barrel over with lead and plastic solvents to get them clean. I would rather stick with Black Powder , and have my gun cleaned and ready for storage in a casual 10 minutes of work. I don't clean modern guns much faster than that.

 

[buttonbuck]

any special tricks? I use soap and boiling water out of an electric tea pot, patches on a jag and a cotton mop that goes on my rod end. Oil it when dry. My only question is there a non petroleum lube for keeping rust at bay? I use hoppes suggestions please.

 

[gmww]

Afternoon all. I am looking for the easiest to clean black powder. I have been using Goex for years but man, its gets pretty old cleaning that stuff out of my barrel. I appreciate any opinions you have on other powders or tips on making cleaning easier.
Thanks

Hi billhomes. I'm one of those that swabs between shots with two patches. The reason is I'm trying to keep my barrel as clean as possible to replicate what it will be in the field hunting. I even bring a couple of Underhammers to the range to allow one or more of them to cool down.

So I use a spit patch both sides followed by a dry patch both sides. I've found that when I get home the cleaning process is much easier. Butches BP bore shine works very well. :thumbsup:

 

[Mountainman56]

In the good old days I used nothing but genuine black powder, however now availability is my biggest problem. I live 80 miles from the nearest place where I can even buy pyrodex. 300 miles from the nearest black powder source. I am not prepared to buy 20lbs and pay their exorbitant shipping fees so out of necessity I have been forced to work up a load with alternative powders. I am quite pleased with Pyrodex Select FFG. I've tried the 777 that a lot of folks seem to like but it just didn't seem to be as consistant. Also I agree that a little Butches BP bore shine works like magic.

 

[roundball]

"...I am not prepared to buy 20lbs and pay their exorbitant shipping fees so out of necessity I have been forced to work up a load with alternative powders..."

Just so you're comparing apples to apples...ordering a 25lb case of Goex from a Goex distributor, even with hazmat and shipping, arrives at you door step for about $11.00/pound...the case price cost reduction more than offsets the hazmat & shipping fees.

Unless you have some special circumstances where you can routinely buy subs locally for single digit prices, a case price of Goex delivered is always far cheaper than local purchase prices.

Depending on how much and often somebody shoots there is the sting of shelling out $275.00 at one time...but in those instances it really works well if 2-3 guys can split a case.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Oil is oil. It doesn't matter if it comes from a refinery, or from a plant. However, I do use NL1000, a/k/a Wonderlube, Bore Butter, etc. which is supposedly a non-petroleum product. Ballistol is made from Mineral Oil and some additives, and is probably the best rust preventer on the market. It comes in a can, and can be mixed with beeswax, or crisco, or, I suppose, Parafin, to make a lube. You can simply use a diluted ballistol formula, 1 part water to 4 parts ballistol, to prelube your patches, or patching strips. Let them dry in the sun on a cookie sheet, and roll them up for storage in plastic bags or containers for use on the range or field. These so-called " dry " lubes work quite well. You might spend $15.00 to buy Dutch Schoultz's Black Powder Accuracy system. It will be the best money you have spent in years.
[url] http://www.blackpowderrifleaccuracy.com/[/url]

Dutch worked up these methods over 40 years of shooting, and there are now thousands of shooters who have purchased his system that swear by the techniques, and his dry lube system.

When I last shot using my NL1000 lube, I clean the gun barrel at the range with more NL1000, and then at home with water. The barrel cleaned quickly, and my dry patches came out clean in a hurry. I lubed the barrel with more NL1000, and put it in my closet for storage. I spend a little time wiping off the outside of the barrel and stock, and then lube the barrel, and lock with NL1000 on a patch to prevent rust. Im my A/C house, this seems to work well. If I were in a more damp environment, I would switch to Ballistol, based on tests done here on the forums.

 

[Blizzard of '93]

Give windsheild washer fluid a try, not as cheap as water but really cuts the crud.
I have found that Graf's powder (Wano made, and imported into US by Schuetzen of Germany) leaves little more fouling than Goex (US made) but seems I get better groups.
I hope the traditionalists don't call down a murrain on my herds but I have to admit to using Unholy Pyrodex.(EGADS). The only advantage is that fouling doesn't build up near as fast as Holy Black.
It is harder to ignite and leaves that very crusty 'ring' in and above the 'load' area which absolutely will not come clean without brushing and soaking. that said I have found that Pyro may actually be better than Holy Black for use in C&P revolvers. because you can pull the cylinder and soak it easily for cleaning and I get better accuracy (tighter groups) and the barrel does not foul as quickly.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Of course Pyrodex will work better in C&B revolvers. You get a much smaller charge of powder and a hot cap located in a straight line within a 1/4" of the powder to ignite it. Just try firing caps off of that cylinder some night with no powder and ball in the gun, and what to see how much flame comes out the barrel! It is that hot flash that damn near detonates that powder that makes it so much more consistent to shoot in revolvers.

Its quite another matter to use the stuff in a rifle, particularly shooting PRB. There is not enough inertia in a PRB in the barrel to create enough chamber pressure to burn that stuff well enough, so that there is no ring. Its worse, trying to use it in smoothbores. even with OP wads, you still get a ring, although not as bad as without the OP wads. I have not had any experience using Pyrodex with OP wads and heavy conicals, and that may be where it does burn efficiently, and does not leave behind a crud ring. I did have a friend who was shooting Maxiballs with pyrodex but without the OP wad, and he still experienced the crud ring, he would brush the barrel after every couple of shots, but eventually he stopped shooting, and had to take the gun home to soak to get it out. I don't recall the lube he was using, and it may have been just plain Crisco, because at the time, Crisco was a popular lube to use, particular with the maxiballs.

 

[Runner]

I shoot pretty much all Pyrodex these days in everything. It is the hardest to clean up and protect your gun from. 777 cleans pretty easy, but the patch lube still requires something to cut it out. Real black cleans easier than Pyrodex and about the same as 777. Real black is the best all around powder for muzzleloading. It is just getting hard to get around here.
Paul's discussions about Pyrodex are from reading about others using it. Pyrodex is a very good roundball powder. It is much better than black in the large bore shotguns also. P is maybe the most accurate conical powder that there is. None of that is from reading others experiences. It is from over 20 years using Pyrodex exclusively in all my guns. It is more corrosive, harder to ignite, and doesn't work worth a hoot in flinters. It is harder to clean also. It is 5 bucks a pound on clearance at the local Wally World on after season clearance. Black is better but not enough to jump thru hoops to get a can unless you use flintlocks only.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Runner; I have been watching people shoot Pyrodex for more than 30 years. I have watched them use it in handguns, rifles, and shotguns. I have seen the " OLD " pyrodex, and the new. The new seems to be more consistent in performance. My comments about Pyrodex are based on my observations, and NOT on reading about it from others. I have helped men clean their barrels when the crud got so bad they were getting ramrods stuck in the barrels. I have loaned them my bore brush when they didn't have theirs. And I have helped them clean the barrel when they were exhausted and needed to take a break. I have not worked up loads personally with Pyrodex. I decided a long time ago, after watching a good friend shoot it, and after he let me shoot a couple of rounds out of his gun, that I would stick with Black Powder.

The reason I have kept an eye on other guys shooting the stuff is to see if the new stuff will conquer some of the problems of the old stuff. I have seen hang fires with it in shotguns, and when I asked the shooter about it, he told me that the hangfires were " normal " in his gun. I didn't see how he cleaned and prepared his gun to shoot, so I can't say the hangfires weren't due to his poor loading and cleaning practices. The crud rings seems to be a continued problem when Pyrodex is shot in rifles. OP wads seem to help, making me think that building chamber pressure is required to defeat the crud rings. Conicals and OP wads would seem to do the trick, as I know of some BPCR shooters who use Pyrodex in their guns and have found no crud ring problems using it.

I learned a long time ago, Runner, that I don't have to jump off a cliff to know that the sudden stop is going to hurt! If I were a millionaire, I still would not have enough time to try to do everything I have seen others do, with my own guns. Some experiences are best had vicariously- its safer that way!

 

[roundball]

I used Pyrodex RS for years in caplocks and it was excellent save the occasional ignition problem...but CCI #11 magnum caps seemed to cure even that...and I always had good consistency and accuracy with RS, took a number of deer with some TC caplocks and RS, etc.

But when I switched to Goex & Flintlocks, there's no question that Goex was clearly better in the ignition department, so much so that I rezeroed all my caplocks to Goex to eliminate any possibility of ignition issues.

I've always cleaned muzzleloaders fanatically so nothing changed in that department and RS never harmed any of my rifles.

And I already know from hands on experience that layered charges of 20grns Goex followed by various charges of RS works perfectly in Flintlocks so if BP suddenly became unavailable, I'd stock up on RS because it's that good, switch to layered loads in my Flintlocks, and stretch out my Goex supply for years by just using it for igniter charges.

 

[Blizzard of '93]

Pyro does well for me in my .50 rifle but that darned 'ring' it leaves is just not worth the considerable trouble to clean. requires multiple soaking and/or brushing to clean it. and groups are not as good as with BP, maybe compression of the load? anyway I use Holy Black in my rifles, and sometimes Pyro in my C&B revolvers, I swear it does better than black, I think mainly due to the lesser amount of bore fouling.

 

[roundball]

"...but that darned 'ring' it leaves is just not worth the considerable trouble to clean. requires multiple soaking and/or brushing to clean it..."

Never had that in any rifle...

 

[Poor Private]

I agree with Osage.
I use 777 exclusivly in my 1/2 doz or so pistols.
I find that there is less fouling also using 777. As easy to clean as Bp.

 

[Runner]

Fouling amount makes no difference unless it is causing a problem loading. Since I swab between shots, that is not a factor. Graf's produces a touch more fouling but it is softer and produces slightly better accuracy for me than Goex did a couple of years back.
777 fouling is hard and gritty when it is dry, and turns to greasy soup right after a summer shower when it is damp. It is worse that black for drawing moisture. Unless you use enough lube and a clean bore to defeat the variable barrel conditions, very few guns will shoot consistantly with light for caliber bullets like roundballs using 777. You need a tight load and a well lubed patch with 777 if you want consistant velocities. My 36 loves the 3f 777. Because of the fouling drawing moisture, the crud ring when shooting heavy bullets or sabots, and the price, I have pretty much eliminated it as a hunting powder.
I have never seen a crud ring caused by Pyrodex. I have seen them with both black powder and 777. If you swab between shots with a damp patch, none of it matters anyway.
Pyrodex smells worse, takes a hotter ignition, and is more corrosive than real black. Like Roundball said, it is perfectly usable, even for long periods. Oddly enough, roundball is often more accurate with RS and conicals better with P. Conicals + P = heavy recoil.
Black is cheaper only if you mail order large amounts. It is the best all around powder out there for traditional guns. Black has a large power range when you figure in all the the different brands and granulations. You can really fine tune a load better with it than the others. The speed and consistancy of ignition is top notch. It is the traditional answer and it should be all that is allowed to be used at a traditional shoot in my opinion.
I use RS for almost everything from the 36 to the 12 guage today. I can get a can in about 10 different places inside ten miles of my house. It requires good cleaning practices, loads worked up using it, and scrupulous care to keep the flash channel dry.
Black is better, but there is a lot of misinformation out there that makes Pyrodex sound like something evil. It is a perfectly usable substitute for black in caplock guns.