Effectiveness and AMMO of Flintlock Conversion

[Big Yehudah]

During the French Invasion of Mexico, 1861-67, the Mexican regulars were the only ones fortunate enough to be armed with minie rifles. However a large number (probably a good half) were using flintlock muskets, probably Brown Bess India pattern and natively manufacture copies for the most part, converted into percussion rifles. I have a fairly large history library at home and a good deal of books borrowed from the UCF library. Converted flintlock smoothbores are only mentioned briefly in passing, without detail. My question is this, How effective would a flintlock smoothbore, converted to a percussion rifle actually be, range, accuracy, ideal reload time, etc. And what ammunition would such a rifle be using? Would they use minie balls, or just round lead balls? How would this work?

 

[necchi]

The Flint to Percussion conversion is/was nothing new during that era.
I have a Potsdam (Prussian) conversion dated 1839, those where actually double stamped mine has a manufacture date of 1836 then under the barrel is 1839,, the conversion. Thousands where imported by the North for our Civil war.

The conversion itself isn't going to affect range or accuracy,, it's still a smooth musket.

I can't speak of the projectile as I have no knowledge of Mexican history, I'll just say that your listed dates are duplicate of our Civil war and if I'm not mistaken the Minnie in a paper cartridge was predominate on both side.

 

[Treestalker]

The guys in the 15th Arkansas Vol. Inf. N.W. reenactors had a couple of .69 cal smoothbore 1842 springfields, and shot one ball and three buckshot and could hit 3 separate man torso targets at 50 yds, IIRC. Devastating. Treestalker.

 

[nkbj]

The US Army converted their .69's to percussion, then made .69 percussion smoothbores, then rifled a passel of them, added a rear sight and shot minies out of them.
I'm using a slick sided design patched with paper from a Big Chief tablet.



Was out back today adjusting the hole that the front barrel band indexes in, to adjust the windage.

 

[Treestalker]

Wow, a hole like that would really ruin your day, and maybe the guy behind you, too. You're right, I had forgotten the U.S. Army made rifled muskets out of them. I saw a U.S. sailor reenactor at Yale, Ok. once with a rifled 1842, now that I think back. Thanks, Tree.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Converting a flint smoothbore to a perc. it would still be a smoothbore.
Smoothies do not shoot elongated projectiles well at all. They are simply perc. fowlers.

 

[Big Yehudah]

Given the poverty of the countryside, the government had to use what was available. Many of their regulars had to use flintlock smoothbores, converted into percussion rifles. How effective would an American .69 smoothbore converted into a minie rifle be? That should be a good point of reference.

@ Goodchear, those are some nice photos. How accurate do you think a .69 smoothbore converted into a percussion rifle firing minieballs would be?

 

[Wes/Tex]

The potential accuracy of any military smoothbore will run about the same all round. Real accuracy is a fleeting thing with smoothbores, but is possible with some work and testing. Military use was a different thing altogether. Tight fitting ball/wad combo is essential for accuracy but detrimental to reloading speed...the cornerstone of military thinking. A tight fitting ball or patched ball has the potential to go into a dinner plate at 75 to 100 yards.

Having said that, the M.1842 muskets were converted to sighted, rifled-muskets from 1856-59 by Springfield and Harper's Ferry. At the same period, the Frankford Arsenal in Philadelphia converted 20,000 M.1816(Types II & III)muskets into Maynard tape primer ignition and rifled the barrels. 2,000 went to New Jersey; 600 to the U.S. Navy; others went to the 6th U.S. Infantry at Frot Riley, Kansas in 1857 plus many to the state of New York to arm her militia, including Company K (Zouave) of the justly famous 69th New York.

Many French, Prussian and Austrian muskets are roughly .69 caliber and could be shot the same way. The rifled versions do have the option of using Lyman's big ole honking .69" Minie. It fit the smoothbore M.1809/39 Potsdam musket. Drop in a big .69" Minie with skirt up and you've got a stake buster...with the weight aft, it's liable to hit the stake at almost any angle! Accuracy is so-so at best, but at short stake-busting range you can always hit it somewhere! :thumbsup: Just told my team to hold fire till I knocked a chunk out of the stake, then shoot next to the crater I'd made to cut the stake in a hurry! I"m a bad boy!! :wink: :rotf:

 

[nkbj]

Given the poverty of the countryside, the government had to use what was available. Many of their regulars had to use flintlock smoothbores, converted into percussion rifles. How effective would an American .69 smoothbore converted into a minie rifle be? That should be a good point of reference.

@ Goodchear, those are some nice photos. How accurate do you think a .69 smoothbore converted into a percussion rifle firing minieballs would be?

Here's some reading on what they figured out. https://archive.org/details/cu31924030757474

On a good day mine makes holes touch a fifty yards and I never have found the "best" loads.
And I'd really, really like to have a big ol' flinter rifled to chunk big bullets. I'd like to see just how good it would do.

 

[bpd303]

I found it interesting that in the report, they found musket powder to leave less fouling than with rifle powder. Haven't finished reading the full report (downloaded it in pdf).

 

[Many Klatch]

Many of U.S. Grant's troops at the battles behind Vicksburg were armed with converted smoothbores. Grant actually preferred the smoothbores to rifles. When the US troops shot, one round ball and three buckshot went down range. When the Southern troops shot only one round came back. Since they were standing about 50 yards apart the advantage was to the Federal troops.

After the surrender of Vicksburg, the Southern forces marched in, stacked arms and walked out. Then the Federal troops marched in, stacked their smoothbores and then marched to where the Southern troops had left their rifles and became riflemen.

Many of the rifles used by the South in Vicksburg reportedly had come from a blockade runner and were most likely Enfields.

Buck and Ball is a fearsome antipersonnel round. The 3 .32 caliber buckshot often group in a 12" pattern around the roundball point of impact at 25 yards. If you are shooting into a close packed line of troops you may cause injury to two troops at once.

Buck and Ball was the standard US cartridge for muskets from the Rev War to the Civil War.

Many Klatch

 

[Wes/Tex]

Buck and Ball is a fearsome antipersonnel round. The 3 .32 caliber buckshot often group in a 12" pattern around the roundball point of impact at 25 yards. If you are shooting into a close packed line of troops you may cause injury to two troops at once.

Buck and Ball was the standard US cartridge for muskets from the Rev War to the Civil War.

Many Klatch

Actually, that was the point of the load. Even a soldier stopping a a single buckshot might have to leave the field...and there were always a few extra guys willing to help him. Militaries of the day were just playing the odds!