Elk hunting Q.

[longcruise]

Well, rifleman, your negative response to his intention is equally familiar! :haha: no reason why he can't develop his loads and skill to the max and hunt within his own limits. It always seems that anybody who presents a goal here that falls outside the bounds of the politically correct trad police gets pounced on!

Seems to me that if Claude accepts the topic for discussion, then we ought to be polite about it or simply not engage the subject!

OK, that's my rant for November!

 

[harleysboss]

I too have a rifle set up similar to idahoron's. Its a lyman deerstalker with the 50cal GM LRH barrel and peep sight. I also shoot paper patch 460grn lead slugs. My load this year for a real successful elk hunt was 75grns fffg Goex, card wad and PP bullet. This combo was sighted in for on the money at 75yds. It shot through and through and the elk dropped in sight. My shot was under 30yards and I'm confident that a 54 and up RB would have produced similar results. Now I'm no expert elk killer, but I have shot 3 with a muzzy. All traditional rifles. Two with conicals and one with RB. The two conical elk were recovered in short order and the RB elk a considerable tracking job and followup shot to seal the deal. Elk take some killing and when every thing is "perfect" I believe a RB will work just fine. Now when hunting and things go slightly off center the extra umfff of a big conical just may be the thing that saves the day. If a fast twist is what you are in search of then have at it. There are several here that can help. If you can find a GM barrel you will like it. And there are several options to have a barrel made for your stock. Good luck.

 

[Idaho Ron]

Elk take some killing

No truer words were written. I have seen cases where you hit them good and they stay on their feet forever. When guys that have shot whitetails say what to use I get a little agitated. Elk are tough and should never be underestimated. As you well know. :thumbsup:

 

[Vaino]

The many elk that have been shot by our party weren't all that difficult to kill w/ .54 PRBs and .50 cal, 410 gr. Buffalo Bullets.

Have shot a whole lot of whitetails and most didn't have to be tracked....same as the elk.

Elk are huge animals compared to whitetails, but a well placed shot kills them dead....same as whitetails.

Whatever rifle/caliber/load gets the job done is where it's at.....Fred

 

[Idaho Ron]

I have killed 20 elk my self. I have helped a few guys track elk that they knew were dead because of a perfect shot.

 

[charcoleburner54]

I have no problems shooting RB just to get out in the woods and make smoke is a great day and as far as hunting goes I think shot placement within the range of your weapon and projectile is most important and if a conical extends that range all the better I went to my first Rendavue back in the early 70s with my Dad and thats when the adiction started its time to build the fire again so to speak

 

[rodwha]

"This thread sounds familiar."

Or at least some of the responses.


"Lot of folks want to turn their obsolete, old technology, firearms into long range somethings they can never be."

Yet there are traditional firearms of that era that certainly could and did regularly.


"But, even with a heavy bullet type projectile you are still limited to about 100 yards."

Certainly if you are. However, back then, there were certainly plenty who weren't as there are some today as well.


"And, unlikely a big bullet will kill an elk any mor ded than a round ball."

Except that a PRB is very difficult to put on target accuratrely, especially with a breeze, at range where a conical with a much higher BC can perform. I'd certainly prefer a conical able to be placed in the zone than a RB that I cannot promise...


But I'm intending on using a PRB through my .50 cal unless I get the chance for something bigger where I'd opt for a REAL as I'm not so confident in a ball on an elk very far.

I've been wanting a drop-in barrel for my rifle to top with a Malcolm scope (or maybe a peep sight now) for hunting fields with a range of up to 200 yds, but I want a nice point blank system where nothing is outside of 4" and this just isn't possible. Finding what will do OK out to 175 yds within my window does poorly at the additional 25 yds, and so it is what it is for me. I give up on a 200 yd muzzleloader as I don't want so much figuring to need to do. A little with room for error is great for me. But I certainly wouldn't try a PRB at 150 yds whereas I'm certain a REAL has the potential. I don't know if I do though.

 

[KHickam]

I have only killed a few elk - the one that dropped in it's tracks was hit with a buck and ball load from a 62 cal Fusil De Chasse at about 15 yds

Dad regularly did it with 50 TC Hawken with a maxi ball - over about 100 grs of FFg that think recoiled something fierce (course the memory could be mitigated by me being 12-15 yrs old)

Does Washington still not allow substitutes and those BP that do not have sidelock,flintlock etc with "exposed ignition type open to the elements"?

 

[Vaino]

If you had to track an elk some distance that was hit w/ a "perfect" shot, then the shot wasn't at all "perfect"?

None of the elk shot by members of our elk hunting party had to be tracked over 100 yds. Why? Mainly because of killing shot placements, but also because a large enough caliber was used w/ proper loads and as I said.... mainly .54 PRBs and a couple of .50 calibers w/ 410 gr Buffalo Bullets. Needless to say, we didn't take shots that were doubtful as to range and cover.....personally I have "passed" on a shot at a 6X6 because I estimated the distance to be over 150 yds and never regretted it.

At 83, I no longer elk hunt, but it surely was the "best" hunting I've experienced along w/ ruffed grouse hunting over my setters.

The area of Colorado I hunted, offered everything the Rockies were known for....never had a bad hunt irrespective of whether elk were shot.

Wish you continuing success on elk.....Fred

 

[Rifleman1776]

a PRB is very difficult to put on target accuratrely

Total nonsensical statement.

 

[harleysboss]

Thats my point exactly..the RB shot was not"perfect" and rarely in the field, hunting elk on the ground, is it "perfect". The big lead in my opinion is better for when we as hunters are not so "perfect". They will make up for those shots that dont land with bench rest accuracy. They are not a cure all and dont make up for bad shots. The RB in my case was a slight angling away and not broadside as I had thought in the 3 seconds that I was presented with a shot. One lung and a LONG tack job to finish what I started. Yes I believe a conical would have helped in my situation because I believe it would have at least passed through and I would have had two hole leaking in stead of one. Again my opinion. It sounds like your party is a group of excellent elk shooters and I commend you for it. Hunt on as will I. The original poster asked specifically about a fast twist and we should help him out with what he desires to do. I think roundball uses a quote of "more lead kills em dead" or something along them lines...I agree 460 grn lead conical

 

[rodwha]

I see. So you'd have no problems putting a PRB on target past 150 yds with a nice breeze and as potential gust or two?

MUCH easier to do with a heavier conical as it won't be effected by the breeze or gusts nearly as badly.

Longer range or larger game is really the only reason I'd prefer a conical in my .50 cal as I feel a PRB is plenty out to 100 yds, which is the majority of my hunting (most between 70-80 yds). But if/when I decide on something for hunting fields I'd certainly not consider a ball even if I felt confident that I can put it on a gong that far as I respect the animal more than that, and wouldn't want to need to track it God knows how far.

 

[nkbj]

Golly, let's argue over how fast a twist he could needs if he rebores that crusty .54.
Oh, yeah, and whether or not to epoxy the barrel into the stock.

 

[Idaho Elk Hunter]

The many elk that have been shot by our party weren't all that difficult to kill w/ .54 PRBs and .50 cal, 410 gr. Buffalo Bullets.

Have shot a whole lot of whitetails and most didn't have to be tracked....same as the elk.

Elk are huge animals compared to whitetails, but a well placed shot kills them dead....same as whitetails.


Whatever rifle/caliber/load gets the job done is where it's at.....Fred

Born and raised right here in great Elk country in north central Idaho and super whitetail hunting as well as mule deer too. No way can you even come close to comparing elk against deer when it comes to how much it can take sometimes to bring one down. If I shoot PRB I rarely would even think about anything beyond 70 yds. Conicals I would maybe go to 90 yds and anyone that says different and shoot elk with RB beyond that distance hasn't had the real experience period!
I cannot count how many elk I have killed in my lifetime at age 62 now and first one at 14. Have shot a LOT of big magnum calibers too and they will go a long distance if not placed correctly even with the big magnums. I respect the elk so much that I won't take the chances I used to when younger and I wish more would also. So many get wounded and not recovered in my area from some idiot who thinks they can drop an elk at over 100 yds with RB. Conicals in my opinion should not be used beyond 90 to 100 yds max in my opinion as well. Been there done that....I can honestly say!

 

[charcoleburner54]

I like this forum I did get some info on my Q. and also a lively discusion on elk hunting I was wondering when true big bore front stuffers started being used in the western frontier 50 and bigger I wonder how many Elk,Bear and deer fell to a 45 or 50 cal RB Im not saying anybody on this sight or any other are unethical hunters but they're out there both in muzzy archery or modern hunting and that will never change im afraid I was wondering is there a good gun smith that can do barrel work at a reasonable price sorry about lack of punctuation

 

[Idaho Ron]

If you had to track an elk some distance that was hit w/ a "perfect" shot, then the shot wasn't at all "perfect"?

None of the elk shot by members of our elk hunting party had to be tracked over 100 yds. Why? Mainly because of killing shot placements, but also because a large enough caliber was used w/ proper loads and as I said.... mainly .54 PRBs and a couple of .50 calibers w/ 410 gr Buffalo Bullets. Needless to say, we didn't take shots that were doubtful as to range and cover.....personally I have "passed" on a shot at a 6X6 because I estimated the distance to be over 150 yds and never regretted it.

At 83, I no longer elk hunt, but it surely was the "best" hunting I've experienced along w/ ruffed grouse hunting over my setters.

The area of Colorado I hunted, offered everything the Rockies were known for....never had a bad hunt irrespective of whether elk were shot.

Wish you continuing success on elk.....Fred

That was my point. A guy shoots an elk and says it was a perfect shot but then the tracking starts and mile after mile you start to wonder where the guy hit it.
I was hunting in Island park Idaho. A guy shoots and I ended up seeing him. We started to track his elk and I could tell he was wanting to give up. Soon he said well I am heading back before I get lost. I stayed on the track and killed the elk with a quartering shot that took out the lungs and hit the off shoulder. He had shot it with a PRB in the shoulder. The ball was against the shoulder blade. Another time I was hunting with a friend that shot a cow and said it was a good shot. After several miles we pushed her across a shale slide in about a foot of snow. When she broke out into the open I put one through the lungs and I saw the blood splatter behind her on the slope. She was still on her feet and I pounded her again. She was on her feet maybe 100 yards after I hit her but it seemed like forever. The point is I have seen guys loose elk that were said to be dead on their feet. Elk are tough as you know and should never be underestimated. Guys that have never shot one have no idea how tough they are.

 

[azmntman]

Game warden buddy hit a cow at a water hole from a tree stand, perfect double lung (archery). Stood about 45 sec and started to wobble, a truck came by the elk ran 1/4 mile. Pretty tough indeed. I been quite lucky (so far) myself. Non of my BP elk have not gone outta sight yet.

 

[Idaho Elk Hunter]

Idaho Ron you have hunted and know elk and you know that guy that you ran into while elk hunting that had wounded the elk.... probably shot her from over 100yds and especially since you said PRB stuck in shoulder blade area with hardly any penetration.
My first elk with PRB was taken at about 28-30 yds and I shot her in front shoulder with 50 cal Hawken TC with PRB 120 gr. BP and it went all the way thru her, I was very impressed, it went through right shoulder and into lungs and exited about 2 ribs to the rear on left side. She died right there on the spot. But, key is as I said too....people shoot too far with PRB and on elk I am firm believer with PRB don't try shooting elk over 70 to 80 yds. I have lost them too, I know from experience! Conical is a different story they carry more energy farther than RB does.
Another thing, I don't use those gigantic magnum loads anymore in BP...referring to 120 grains on that cow.
Jim

 

[Rifleman1776]

I see. So you'd have no problems putting a PRB on target past 150 yds with a nice breeze and as potential gust or two?

MUCH easier to do with a heavier conical as it won't be effected by the breeze or gusts nearly as badly.

Longer range or larger game is really the only reason I'd prefer a conical in my .50 cal as I feel a PRB is plenty out to 100 yds, which is the majority of my hunting (most between 70-80 yds). But if/when I decide on something for hunting fields I'd certainly not consider a ball even if I felt confident that I can put it on a gong that far as I respect the animal more than that, and wouldn't want to need to track it God knows how far.

non-sensical statement compounded. :youcrazy:

 

[rodwha]

Sorry you are having issues comprehending, especially when you pull a small portion for your quote.

Maybe you should reread this thread.