Elk hunting Q.

[Zonie]

How do you figure his comment was nonsensical?

I'll admit I did my number crunching with my computer roundball trajectory program but after poking in some numbers, this is what I got

.50 cal roundball, muzzle velocity 1800 fps, aim point 100 yards, crosswind 25 mph.
roundball drift at 100 yards = 30.4 inches.
roundball drift at 140 yards = 56.9 inches

.50 cal slug with spherical nose and 450 grain weight, muzzle velocity 1400 fps, aim point 100 yards, crosswind 25 mph.
slug drift at 100 yards = 13.7 inches
slug drift at 140 yards = 25.9 inches

Notice, I slowed the 450 grain slugs velocity down to keep the comparison somewhat realistic. The slower slug velocity gives the wind more time to try to deflect the bullets path.

The computers answer is about what I'd expect.
With the heavier slug it takes more force to deflect it from its path so the same velocity of wind had considerably less effect on its flight.

 

[Vaino]

Evidently you don't understand the reasoning behind using 120 grs 3f. Let me explain.....elk can be killed w/ smaller loads than 120 grs 3f, but energy isn't the reason for this load.. a practical trajectory w/ a 100 yd zero is. The mid-range height w/ my load is less than 2 inches and this enables aiming w/o having to compensate for an excessive mid-range height. Just making it simple... that's all.

The other load in our camp is 100 grs 2f and a 410 gr. Buffalo Bullet. This load produces an excessive mid-range height at a 100 yd zero so a 60 yd zero yields a practical trajectory. I formerly used this load but a few times the conical came off the charge and having to check periodically was getting to be tedious.

Elk are surely a huge animal compared to a whitetail, but judging from those killed by our party w/ side, heart/lung shots, they're not too much different than whitetails.

Possibly w/ poorly placed shots elk will travel further than whitetails, but we've never had to trail an elk more than 100 yds. That's the way it's supposed to be?.......Fred

 

[Dphar]

I am going to rebuild my Renagade it is a 54 know but I want a new barrel I got the gun used and the owner I dont think ever cleaned the barrel so I was thinking of getting a fast twist barrel but which caliber would be best I dont want to shoot RB and shots would range from 50-200 yards who makes drop in barrels is it only Green Mountain I have so many questions so little space. Thanks for your thoughts

If you do not want to shoot a RB why do you want a traditional ML?
The conical creates more problems than it solves.

Dan

 

[charcoleburner54]

I will shoot PRB I am planning next years Mule Deer hunt that will be with my new round baller what ever that will be but for Elk I personaly feel more confident with heavy conicals just me

 

[Idaho Elk Hunter]

Our elk here in Idaho are 2 1/2 to 3 times bigger than a big whitetail....so I don't know how anyone could say they are pretty much the same as whitetail when it comes to downing them....Idaho elk are not that way....wow I have seen elk go for miles after being hit with magnum centerfire ammo. I have never known anyone out here that can say they are an elk hunter that has never had to trail one very far indeed. Part of being an elk hunter is learning to be an expert tracker as well if not a good tracker you better not be shooting at elk and I don't care how good a shot you are. LOL

 

[Idaho Elk Hunter]

Hey Zonie....that is some good info you posted there on ballistics on RB and conical. Very interesting and now I see why you used 25 mph on crosswind....good info for sure!!

 

[azmntman]

I have shot 22 elk that I can count at the moment (likely a few more). Never had to track one more than 80 yds and saw almost all drop. I consider myself an elk hunter (meat though....done with trophy). You are correct though, an elk has an incredible will to live and if not hit HARD the first shot one has a not so easy task ahead.

However i did once hit a mule deer at 180 yds trotting with a ML. Tracked 4.9 miles (per GPS, with all the circling etc more like 7-8). Thats why we should listen when folks talk about keeping shots under a 100 yds! Had I not had a true KY hillbilly with me I would not have recovered that deer.

 

[Vaino]

Perhaps Colorado elk are "wimpier" and succumb to well placed shots more so than Idaho elk.

Tracking is a worthwhile skill, but we've never had a use for it while elk hunting.....unless walking in the direction of a "shot" elk for 100 yds or less qualifies as "tracking".

Although the "new" hunters in our party never previously hunted elk, they all are excellent shots and have deer hunted for many years.

The last elk I shot was the lead cow in a herd of 8 which included a 6X6 bull, but I couldn't shoot it because of only a cow tag. The cow stood broadside at a paced off 107 yds and the .54 PRB hit her in the lungs and she surprisingly ran towards me and went down 40 yds from me. In fact I didn't even have to roll her over....she was on her back....how's that for accommodation?

Lousy hits on any big game cause the animals to travel sometimes over long distances and tracking skills are then necessary, but this scenario hasn't been our experience when elk hunting in Colorado......Fred

 

[Rifleman1776]

He said:

a PRB is very difficult to put on target accuratrely

Many ml shooters can. Defining "very difficult" might be a point for debate. It is a nonsenical statement.

 

[Idaho Elk Hunter]

Hey I will always take an easy one....my neighbor down the road we live in country on acreages and he got a nice cow with me several years ago and I just backed my truck up and dropped tail gate which was about 4 inches off ground as she died on an incline just above truck, couldn't believe it. She only went about 50 yds before piling up. Snow was on ground we slid her right into pickup and had her home and skinned and quartered before noon that day. Too far and few between though for those kind of days. LOL

I didn't mean that Idaho elk are tougher or smarter, but they are in tough country and can easily get away from you, so tracking has to be in back of your mind. I have hunted in Colo. wow super high altitude I do remember the several times we went there. Nice place!! Lots of elk!!!

 

[Vaino]

I no longer hunt because of physical problems but my son and his buddies still use the original campsite which is at 10,200 ft elevation and it's in a Nat'l Forest.

Every 5 AM, a climb to nearly 11,000 ft really wakes a guy up. Takes 2-3 days to acclimate but then it's a breeze. We usually arrived at the campsite 3 days early so we'd be used to the elevation.

Have hunted there since 1987 using a bow, MLer and CF depending on the season and/or draw.....but mostly MLer. Just had to get to the mountains......very addictive......Fred

 

[rodwha]

That's only a nonsensical statement for you because you used 1/3 of my statement. In full context you'll see, why I stated such. To help you a bit:

"Except that a PRB is very difficult to put on target accuratrely, especially with a breeze, at range where a conical with a much higher BC can perform."

Your statement earlier was that a projectile, regardless, wasn't very effective beyond 100 yds, which is far from true, though it is what you believe. However it is not a true statement whatsoever. Zonie pulled up some ballistics information for you. That should help your understanding.

The range talked about was out to 200 yds if you recall. I would not try past 125 yds will a ball on a calm day with an excellent rest. But maybe you are much better...

 

[Idaho Elk Hunter]

Talking about high altitude...wow, I remember first time in Colorado looking at an altitude sign and it said 11,000 feet and I am a pilot too and I thought a person could get hypoxia being this high up and yes, arriving several days in advance would be smart to get used to altitude. I live here in Idaho at my place it is 1394 feet above sea level...pretty low compared to most places in Idaho even. LOL

 

[Vaino]

First hunted elk in Montana w/ an outfitter...bad choice because he "put on" a Hollywood production which really "opened' my eyes and henceforth, it was a do it yourself thing.

Chose Colorado for our first do it yourself MLer elk hunt because of their low license fees and a fair MLing drawing...in fact the first few years we drew either sex MLer elk tags every year. That changed when more hunters realized the advantages of elk hunting in Colorado. Today, the NR license fees are around $500 whereas when we first started, they were under $200.

Presently it takes at least 4 preference points to have a successful MLer draw for elk in our area. So...my son applies every year for just a "preference point" until he has 4 and then gets serious. Heck of a way to do it, but being a NR means having to take "seconds" or nothing.....Fred

 

[Idaho Elk Hunter]

Well now in Idaho the NR tags were snapped up in a matter of a day or two every year in Unit 10A where I live and hunt. A large Unit with lots of elk. The wolves were planted here in 1995 and these wolves are Canadian Timber Wolves from Yukon region mostly. Very large, larger than a lot of deer and are not same species that used to inhabait this area, not even close!
Up north their pup survival rate is low, very low and therefore the survivors are superior strength and genetics. Down here the survival rate is almost 100% as it is like Palm Springs for these Canadian wolves and game everywhere!
As result the elk population has plummeted a lot in the areas the wolves frequent. Not too far from me and I mean less than 20 air miles we have several packs. Now you can buy NR tags up until season starts as NR hunters are not coming back into the areas where wolves are as elk are different there, very nervous, stressed and get harassed all the time by wolves, don't call out anymore in those areas as they have learned it is nothing more than a "dinner bell" for the wolves to come and eat them.
If we have another winter like 1996 the elk are not in good enough shape to make it hardly in good normal snow year from being stressed and harassed all year long by wolves. The most stupid thing I ever heard of...not same species and their pups are thriving and large litters make it rather than just one or two like they do up north. Our back country hunting has been hurt badly by the wolf packs and it will be interesting to see what happens next 10 years. I carry wolf tag at all times, 5 wolves per tag.
I also reload and shoot long distance center fire large caliber and small caliber rifles to help on curbing the wolf population too. Wolf season open until April 15th. Good winter time fun!!!!

 

[Vaino]

A similar situation is occuring in Wisconsin.....in the area we deer hunt, there's 2 wolf packs and 10 years ago we already noticed a much lower number of young deer and does. Two years ago we shot 4 bucks and only one mature doe.

Don't think the wolves should be annihilated, but controlled. We finally have a wolf season so the deer population should increase.

A wolf pack requires a lot of meat to survive.....Fred

 

[Idaho Elk Hunter]

A wolf pack requires a lot of meat to survive.....Fred [/quote]

Yes they do...a pack takes down at least a full grown game animal every 3 days...or I should say they never go more than 3 days and will kill everyday if opportunity arises. These wolves we have here in Idaho are NOT THGE SAME as we had before!!! That is my problem...these Canadian wolves are reproducing a LOT quicker than the resident wolves back in the day in this part of the country. We were not over run with them...we are talking about 1200+ wolves now and they started with 20 something in 1996...not good numbers and yes we are trying to control them, but Idaho is big country and lots of area with no access and there is no way we will control them the way they need to be. This is why fish and game is giving tags away practically and you can kill 5 wolves to each tag. Too late now,,, the elk herds are getting decimated as I write this.
As you can tell I am not happy with wolves being brought to this area especially when they are not even close to same as we had. 1/3 larger at least.

 

[Rifleman1776]

There seems to be a big 'pro-wolf' publc relations push going on right now. I have seen several articles lately written by or quoting "experts" that grossly distort facts saying the wolves are not a threat to anything. :barf:
I did see an article not long ago with an opposite slant on the issue. It seems wolves kill far more elk than previously thought. This happens because the stalking and hunt nature of wolves keeps elk contantly on the move and consuming energy they need to stay alive in cold winter months. Normally the elk will bed down for long periods to preserve their energy when food supplies are short. Meaning many elk found dead and presumed to have starved to death were actually harrased to death. :cursing:

 

[renegadehunter]

One needs only to look at the Yellowstone elk herd to get an idea of what they do to the population. In 1995 when they introduced gray wolves, the elk herd was 20k+ animals. Last count I heard around 2010, the Yellowstone herd was down to 9k+ animals! :barf:

 

[Idaho Elk Hunter]

They kill far more than they let you know for sure! Yes, you are so right in that they slowly kill the elk that they don't just outright kill as they are pushed and pushed relentlessly and don't get a chance to rest and yes, elk like to rest and store up energy for winter and that cannot happen with wolf packs harassing them relentlessly 24 x 7 and that is what I have been saying all along. All you have to do is spend time out there and you will see this as elk have changed their habits too. A bad winter here will kill many more than before due to elk being harassed all year long with the wolves and then they become easy mark for wolves on top of that.