Elk hunting Q.

[Idaho Elk Hunter]

yes, the Yellowstone herd is another example....I watched videos of full grown bulls being chased down in open area fairly easy by pack of wolves and taken down. They have declined over 50% in past 18-19 yrs as well.
Colorado and New Mexico will benefit by getting the NR hunters that usually go to Montana and Idaho, but with wolves they are not buying tags up here because of one reason....wolves. Not same species that were here before anyway...a big screwup by whomever! I know fish and game do not like them, it wasn't them it was Washington D.C.

 

[Idaho Elk Hunter]

There is not many whitetail left in those areas frequented by wolves as they have been hit harder than the elk. No young survive or very few survive that first year as they go first. These wolves are bigger than most white tail. Males are 160+ lbs and there is a female that was tagged and released that weighed in around 170 lbs. The old wolves we used to have here averaged about 85 lbs according to journals of trappers back in the 1920's era.

 

[19 16 6]

If they were here in Australia there would be a bounty on them. Same as the rest of the wild dog population here.
O.

 

[Katahdin]

The wolf reintroduction here in the US is like the Rabbits in Australia at first it looked like a good/marginal idea ,,proven to be not so good.Now there is no turning back,,, Was in Perth back in my Navy days nice city and friendly people ,,

 

[Katahdin]

The wolves need to take down more deer than elk, I think,decause of the size of the animal,,and the meat it provides ,,The attempts to return nature to the old days has proven to not work on so many levels,,when will any of the "experts" figure it out???
We dont have wolves here Yet,,There have been some unconfirmed sightings and I have a picture I took of a Wolf Track ,according to the DIFW program monitor,,but without the body or picture of the animal it can't be "confirmed" could be a coyote ??? track size 3 1/2 X 4",,, some big Coyote!!!!Our coyotes are a cross breed between the Canada Wolf and Western Coyote, confirmed through DNA at the University of Maine years ago..They are bigger than the Western Coyote

 

[renegadehunter]

I recently watched a documentary about the coywolf. Just what we needed, a sly and bigger coyote!

 

[renegadehunter]

The tribe played a big part in getting them introduced as well. You know the kind of pull they have, rarely ever lose a court case and have all their casino money to throw at whatever they decide to. And of course can't forget the squirrel squeezers that jump on the band wagon anytime anything related to animals is concerned, even though they live in a concrete jungle and have zero idea of how nature really works. They always talk about how much of an impact it has when a species goes extinct...yet want humans to have no part of it anymore??? We are an integral part of the food chain that can't be removed without drastic consequences.

 

[Rifleman1776]

how much of an impact it has when a species goes extinct

That has always bumfuzzled me. What happen when a species goes extinct? Methinks, exactly nothing. How would our lives change if suddenly the elephant went extinct? Not at all.
There is a tiny fish in Arkansas that once brought huge construction projects to a halt. It was 'discovered' during the project, declared to be threatened and the project stopped. Nobody knew it was there to begin with. Stop me, I'm on an ff rant. :cursing:

 

[Idaho Elk Hunter]

They have a wolf derby going on in Idaho now and it has drawn so much attention nationwide and lawsuits filed against forest service, etc. Still going on though...I am doing a lot of wolf hunting this winter as it is legal until April something. I can't mention what I will be shooting on this forum, but out to 1,000 yds no problem using nightforce optics. Wolf is not going to like it. Don't like them here.... those buggers!

 

[Vaino]

When one species goes extinct and then another and another, it is a bad omen for humans.... the reason that some species die off is due to many factors....among them is pollution which makes an environment unlivable for that species. Another is the unlimited using of natural resources w/ no concern for various animal species. Unlimited hunting has played a disastrous role in the extinction of many species, but in our own self interest, we have imposed limits and regulations that hopefully will preserve those animals we hunt.

At the rate we're depleting oceanic resources, the future is bleak for many valuable, wild food fish....farm raised fish and shellfish is coming on strong in anticipation of dwindling food sources from our oceans.

As I said....wolf populations should be controlled, but I think it'll be a sorry day if we kill them to extinction.

Too many present day anti-wolf people have taken "Little Red Riding Hood" too seriously ....as many did in out early history.....Fred

 

[azmntman]

Agree! I like wolves ALOT but Elk taste sooo much better. They should be allowed to survive in the wild but regulated (hunted) to make it a happy medium with the other forest residents!!

 

[charcoleburner54]

I raised Wolf hybrids for 17 years sold them all over the US I had a 100% black wolf when she was 10 months old she weighed 110#and almost stood waist high and could bite a rear deer leg in half with ease in the wild they are the apex predator and will get out of control real fast so we as responsible hunters have to keep them to very small packs so we can have deer and elk to hunt and eat I like them but to reintroduce them into the wild in this era was a bad mistake

 

[renegadehunter]

I'm unclear what "big bad wolf" stories have to do with the current situation here in Idaho? I'm not concerned for my own safety when around them, as they're smart enough to fear humans and I'm always armed when in the outdoors anyway, but seeing what these huge gray wolves are doing to the elk, moose, and deer populations is appalling. Come on out to Idaho sometime in the spring and visit the Northfork of the Clearwater River area or the Newsome Creek area of the Southfork, and check out all the wolf killed elk and moose that are laying around with hardly anything ate off of them. The people that keep saying wolves only kill what they have to in order to survive don't know much about them, I can guarantee you that. They weren't ever a native species to this area, and I've never seen or heard any evidence before their introduction that said we needed them to help balance the eco-sytem. We didn't have huge numbers of elk, moose, or deer that got diseased from over population. All I can say is try living and hunting around them for a while and then let me know how you feel about them. I for the life of me can't see how everything was fine without them for so long, but now we somehow need this non-native species to help make the eco-system better. There are some species that extinction would make quite an impact on the eco-system, but others that wouldn't make much impression at all. Managing them is going to be quite the challenge too, because as I recall they tried a lot of different "conventional" ways to get rid of the wolves we used to have over a 100 years ago, all to no avail. They ended up having to poison them all off. I'll be real curious to see where we're at in another 20 years as far as numbers go. My guess is wolf populations will be a lot higher, which will cause major restrictions on hunting seasons and quotas...which is what the tribe and the squirrel squeezers want anyway.

 

[Vaino]

The "Big Bad Wolf" stories it seems have affected persons who were "sitting on the fence" and now want the wolves decimated or it reinforces the opinions of those who already want the same thing.

Wolves were non-existent in what was their "home territories" due to humans killing them off...you're wrong w/ your assumption that the wolves survived this onslaught. The next logical question....if the wolves survived decimation, why were they re-introduced? Answer...because there weren't any wolves left.

It seems there's no moderation concerning wolves....either kill them all or they deserve to flourish w/o regard to over population.

My view is that wolves should be a part of our wilderness areas, but their populations should be controlled.

Somehow I get the gist of some....actually "hating" wolves. Anyways that's the meaning that comes across because there's no moderation in their thoughts.....Fred

 

[19 16 6]

and now want the wolves decimated question....if the wolves survived decimation, why were they re-introduced? Answer...because there weren't any wolves left.

Well then they were not decimated but expunged by genocide.
Fred you use the word decimation & that is very likely a good management system for the Wolf.
Decimate comes from the Latin, decimal or ten. To decimate came from the Roman army punishment for losing a campaign. Form the troops & every tenth man steps forward & is then killed as an example to the rest of them.
To decimate is therefore taking out %10 or 1 in ten, which leaves nine.
So, tags for 1 in every ten wolves every year in a season & see what happens.
My bet is they would still increase in number & problem. %50 is probably still not enough. Set a number & hold them near to it. Still a difficult thing to do. The old & sly survive & the young & silly die, so no breeding & the numbers plummet suddenly. Difficult to manage anyway you look at it & I would say that is why the genocide happened last time the Wolf problem was addressed.
O.

 

[hoochiepapa]

Take a few deep breaths before you believe these folks who have "perfect" hunts. I have killed 22 or so elk, most with cf's, some with ml's. If anyone should have perfect hunts, it would have been us, because we hunted from our cabin in the middle of elk country-and we rarely did. There are lots of things to go wrong.
But the best hunts I personally had were with my Cabela's Hawken in .54 with Hornady Great Plains bullets. I took one bull at about 70 yards, and it took two shots through the boiler room, and he still ran 100 yards or so. Both lungs were gone, and his heart. Elk are tough.

 

[Vaino]

Decimate has 2 meanings....the one I was using ...to kill off most.

Perhaps annihilate would have been a better word, but you get my meaning.

It seems there's a hysteria w/ some when "wolf" is mentioned and I really don't know for sure....but, suspect it stems from childhood. The "big bad wolf" stories or "The Wolfman" movies could be the cause.

Until hunters were restricted by sensible regulations, they did untold damage to our wildlife. I started to hunt at the age of 11 {1943} in northern Minnesota and I admit to shooting animals that shouldn't have been shot, but shortly thereafter, I "grew up" and realized that animals shouldn't be shot if they're not utilized. So....I became a meat hunter.

Wolf populations have to be controlled in this age of "multiple interests", but many would prefer that they be killed into extinction which to me displays a very short sighted outlook....I'm being very polite w/ saying this.....Fred

 

[19 16 6]

It seems there's a hysteria w/ some when "wolf" is mentioned and I really don't know for sure....but, suspect it stems from childhood. The "big bad wolf" stories or "The Wolfman" movies could be the cause.

Yes that seems to be a very deep seated fear. Perhaps it comes from the Wolf being another apex hunter like us & one that is capable of levelling the playing field with us.
Like Sharks, snakes, tigers, bears ect. There seems to be another level for the dog family when they turn on us though they are our best friend & all.
Dingoes here in Australia have that same fear instilling ability & they have gone some way themselves to proving that.
Because I live way out in cattle country a lot of people don't know the town or area or where it is. So I can be on the phone to any part of the country & ask them "do you know where Frazer Island is ? because I live 200 k inland from there." They always know because that is a Dingo attack warm spot where children have been pulled down & you must be very wary of the dog.
O.

 

[RickH]

We have the same problem here in Minnesota.

 

[Dean2]

Decimate has 2 meanings....the one I was using ...to kill off most.

Perhaps annihilate would have been a better word, but you get my meaning.

.....Fred

Actually Fred the word Decimate has a very specific meaning. Only recently has it come to be used as a term for killing off a large amount of a group. As you well know but others may not, its original meaning comes from Roman times when Roman Emperors or Commanders would order the death of every tenth man in a Legion that had lost a war or battle. It was done as "Motivation" to the remaining troops to fight harder the next time out.

That said, we do get your point about the wolves.