Enfield P53 reproductions

[Conquerordie]

I agree with the design issues of the Enfield. I have and original Enfield, and when shouldered, it has a long pull length, but I don't have any issues getting behind the sights. Then shoulder my original M1861, and it's sooooo much more comfortable.
I don't think Union or Confederate were concerned with how the British designed was used for a specific shooting stance. 900,000 were imported, and put to good use by both sides. I guess you just get use to it if you shoot it enough

 

[dave951]

After two pages, let me condense this for you-

Forget Armisport, Pedersoli, Euroarms, etc.

Buy a good condition 1st gen Birmingham Parker Hale

Learn to cast, load, shoot, and be happy.

 

[tjiann]

After two pages, let me condense this for you-

Forget Armisport, Pedersoli, Euroarms, etc.

Buy a good condition 1st gen Birmingham Parker Hale

Learn to cast, load, shoot, and be happy.


View attachment 252663

I'm hoping to shoot mine like that someday

 

[springfield art]

I've got all older Parker-Hales so I may be a bit biased I can only judge by what I've read, it's a roll of the dice. Some are nice, others finished poorly. Hopefully it was just a passing QC problem caused by Covid. Others will chime in too on their experiences who have bought them recently. No longer produced, the fit and finish on the English P-H rifles set the bar high for others IMHO.

Indeed; I had a two-bander in the mid-70's. Highest quality!

 

[Keyhole]

I've had my armisport for about 7 years now, she's a very consistant shooter and still looks great

 

[Cubreac]

A friend just reminded me that the P53 was designed by committee, which explains why the bore, Pritchett bullet and cartridges, and consequential musketry technique, were so advanced for the time while the stock was not. He also mentioned that the Springfield was easier to shoulder.

 

[kh54]

@tjiann - Very nice firearms - I mean antiques. Love the figure on the PH stock.

Armisport put attractive case colored barrel bands on their '53's.
And while I don't know if all Armisport's have 48" twist, mine does.
Hardly kosher for those who want reproductions to meet some higher level of authenticity but certainly acceptable to one wanting .575" pieces of lead to go where intended.

I found a PH 1853 in Albuquerque a few years ago when I lived in NM. (I since traded it.) It was proofed in 1975 and had 1:48 rifling. I understand that PH did that on some P1853s for the US market. The serial number of the one I have now is only 50 greater than the the first one. It has 1:78 rifling.

 

[nkbj]

I've had my armisport for about 7 years now, she's a very consistant shooter and still looks great

Hey there Keyhole.
Does your Armisport have the 48" twist?

 

[nkbj]

@tjiann - Very nice firearms - I mean antiques. Love the figure on the PH stock.



I found a PH 1853 in Albuquerque a few years ago when I lived in NM. (I since traded it.) It was proofed in 1975 and had 1:48 rifling. I understand that PH did that on some P1853s for the US market. The serial number of the one I have now is only 50 greater than the the first one. It has 1:78 rifling.

Now there's an interesting tidbit.
I much prefer 48" as opposed to slower but hey, that's just me.
Which reminds me, I have some slick sided heavies to mold up, patch and swage.

 

[wiscoaster]

As I promised above, here are some (amateur) pics comparing my original contract P53 to my P-H P53.

Great series of comparison pics. Thanks for posting!! Bookmarked for future ref.

 

[Keyhole]

Hey there Keyhole.
Does your Armisport have the 48" twist?

yes it does

 

[maillemaker]

About twist.
It's important to note that the 2-band P58 had the 1:48 twist rate, while the 3-band was 1:78, historically. In addition, the P-58 had a 5-groove barrel, while the P53 is 3-groove.

About authenticity.
Parker Hale started the reproductions of the Enfield muzzle loading rifles. They based their reproduction off of a Type IV Enfield. Historically, these were machine-made rifles. This type of rifle had Baddley-style barrel bands. They also had round-eared lock washers. The Type IV was not used in the American Civil War. Consequently, a big "defarbing" industry built up for people who wanted a more correct Type III Enfield.

Another problem with the Parker Hale was the front sling was wrong.

Euroarms copied the Parker Hale, and so it was also essentially a Type IV reproduction.

Both Armisport and Pedersoli now make a reasonable copy of the Type III Enfield. The barrel bands are still not correct, but are closer to the correct Palmer bands. They have square-eared lock washers, and correct sling hardware.

About Rifling
Nobody produces historically correct progressive-depth rifling anymore. If you want this you will want a replacement barrel from Dan Whitacre. Best best is to have your old breech re-used and threaded to the new barrel.

I'm going from memory on all of this so hopefully I did not make any mistakes.

 

[Cubreac]

Both Armisport and Pedersoli now make a reasonable copy of the Type III Enfield.

There's a problem with Pedersoli in the nipple placement and flash channel. I don't know if this is true on all of the reproductions they've produced.

 

[maillemaker]

There's a problem with Pedersoli in the nipple placement and flash channel. I don't know if this is true on all of the reproductions they've produced.

Great to know, and disappointing.

As the video notes, Pedersoli back in 2017 started putting cleanout screws on their Enfields. This is not historically correct. They probably did this so that they could use the same breeches on their Whitworth and Volunteer rifles, which had cleanout screws.

The N-SSA threatened to pull approval, and so now it looks like rather than go back to the correct straight-in fire channel they simply plugged the cleanout screw hole. So now you have a 90-degree fire channel with no cleanout screw enabling easy cleaning of the fire channel.

 

[Cubreac]

They probably did this so that they could use the same breeches on their Whitworth and Volunteer rifles, which had cleanout screws.

@maillemaker How do the Whitworth and Volunteer rifles stack up against the P53?

 

[maillemaker]

@maillemaker How do the Whitworth and Volunteer rifles stack up against the P53?

No idea, never owned either one.

 

[springfield art]

Good info; I personally probably will not be affected at this point, but it's good to keep up on such details just in case. Thanks.

 

[Spillikins]

How do the Whitworth and Volunteer rifles stack up against the P53?

In what regard?

 

[Cubreac]

In what regard?

If you have experience with them I am interested in knowing how they shoulder in comparison to the P53, and how accurate they are. I assume they are more accurate, all things being equal, and the historical context aside for a moment.

 

[Spillikins]

Much more accurate.
I know no more than that.