European Muskets in Ottoman Service (both imported and manufactured)

[Isaac D Rainey]

I am doing research on imports of guns to the Ottoman Empire from Europe and the U.S. 1789-1867. There is a dearth of sources, and very little surviving examples. There are a few guns floating around on a couple forums and auction houses (mostly 1777 pattern copies) with Ottoman Tughras on them. What is unclear about some of these is whether these examples are imports or the product of the futile efforts made by the Ottomans in the reigns of Selim III to Abdulmejid to manufacture muskets in the factories of Dolambahçe and Zeytinburnu.
So my question is, does anybody in this community have any European muskets with Ottoman arsenal markings and Tughras on them? From my research, they can be a variety of models, but the most common will be 1777 pattern guns or copies of them. Selim III imported guns from France/Belgium, Britain, and Sweden while also starting domestic production of what are describes as "French muskets." Production of these muskets halted after Selim III was deposed, but the factories were running again a few years after Mahmud II destroyed the Janissaries in 1826. By 1849, the Ottomans were producing small amounts of percussion smoothbore muskets (referred to as "1847 Model") alongside some imports from Belgium some of the imports being rifled guns (şeşhane). By 1853 they were pruducing 1000 a month. They were also converting around 1,500 flintlocks a month to percussion. They quality of these guns seems to have been lower than contemporary European guns, because the British and French deemed them inferior and armed battalions of Ottoman troops with rifled muskets during the Crimean War. After Crimea, the Ottomans decided their army must have rifled muskets and attempted to build a factory to produce P/53 copies using purchased British machinery, but this proved too expensive. Instead, according to records interpreted by Serdal (source below), they bought some machines from Belgium and tried to convert their own smoothbore muskets to rifles (i am skeptical of this, tell me if I am wrong, but isn't it dangerous to try to rifle a smoothbore barrel?). They also imported rifles from France, Belgium, and Austria during this time.

So I will restate my question. Does anybody have any examples of the guns I discuss above? The lack of examples leads me to believe very few of them have ever left Turkey, or they were mostly recycled as scrap later on.

Source for most of content: Tüfekhane-i Âmire’yi Mamur Kılmak: Osmanlı Tüfek İmalatında Avrupalı Uzmanların Rolü by Serdal Soyluer.

 

[Dave Markowitz]

Rifling smoothbores can be done. Safety would depend on the barrel wall thickness and rifling depth. For example, significant numbers of the US M-1842 muskets were rifled for use with .69 caliber Minie balls well after being manufactured, hence the term "rifled musket." Many of these saw service in the Civil War.

 

[Isaac D Rainey]

Thanks for the information. I was initially skeptical of the idea, but it makes sense for a military that was perpetually strapped for cash to do something like this. Ironically, Samuel Colt was apparently in the neighborhood peddling surplus M1842 muskets from the close of the Mexican American War. I have not found direct mention of these muskets in Ottoman service, but William D. Edwards writes in his book The Story of Colt's Revolver that he was selling them in the "Mediterranean area" after he was told he would get a hefty commission for every 50,000 he sold.

 

[cyten]

The majority of Turkish muskets I've seen (that were not Miquelets) were imported Springfield 1861 & Enfield 1853. These had tughra more often than not and a great deal were converted to the Snider breechloading system. These have all been in museums in Turkey/Bulgaria/Balkans and a few of them for sale in Bulgaria. As for the French style "Model 1847" I have seen period photos from the Crimean War but none in person, not even in the Istanbul Armory Museum. The 1777 style guns I have never even heard of in Ottoman usage or mfg, though admittedly this is not my forte. Colt was indeed over there peddling revolvers

 

[Barud]

If I recall correctly (I heard this on a history show, mind you), Mahmud II bought flintlock muskets en masse from Liege, Belgium as preparation for his extermination of the Janissary Corps. I don't know what happened to them, but in the Military Museum in Istanbul there's an European style flintlock completely coated in silver, apparently blinged out on Mahmud II's orders (the story being that he traveled incognito to a military outpost and when the guardsman of the post asked for the password, he simply said that he was the Sultan, at which point the guardsman shot at him in response, narrowly missing Mahmud II and making him proud of his newly found army corps' discipline). Perhaps a closer look at that gun can provide some information.

 

[Isaac D Rainey]

The majority of Turkish muskets I've seen (that were not Miquelets) were imported Springfield 1861 & Enfield 1853. These had tughra more often than not and a great deal were converted to the Snider breechloading system. These have all been in museums in Turkey/Bulgaria/Balkans and a few of them for sale in Bulgaria. As for the French style "Model 1847" I have seen period photos from the Crimean War but none in person, not even in the Istanbul Armory Museum. The 1777 style guns I have never even heard of in Ottoman usage or mfg, though admittedly this is not my forte. Colt was indeed over there peddling revolvers

There are very few Ottoman 1777s and other Euro import military flintlocks that I have been able to find. There is the below example from the Army Museum in Istanbul which looks like one from another forum. The info on the plaque claims it is "Istanbul armory production", but it does not clarify if it is from Selim III's factory, or Mahmud II's factory. There is also a couple Belgian-made sea service pistols with Ottoman arsenal markings in old auction listings that look like an example from one of Elgood's books.

In the case of the Colt revolvers, I think this may be a case of one of Colt's tall tails. There is only one Colt Dragoon with a Hagia Irene arsenal mark, and there is no 5,000 gun gap in the serial numbers of Dragoons that could be the "5,000" revolvers that he claimed to have sold to the sultan.
Just a quick question since you seem to know the Balkans and Bulgaria better than me, have you seen any American M1842 muskets floating around there?

If I recall correctly (I heard this on a history show, mind you), Mahmud II bought flintlock muskets en masse from Liege, Belgium as preparation for his extermination of the Janissary Corps. I don't know what happened to them, but in the Military Museum in Istanbul there's an European style flintlock completely coated in silver, apparently blinged out on Mahmud II's orders (the story being that he traveled incognito to a military outpost and when the guardsman of the post asked for the password, he simply said that he was the Sultan, at which point the guardsman shot at him in response, narrowly missing Mahmud II and making him proud of his newly found army corps' discipline). Perhaps a closer look at that gun can provide some information.

You are correct. Mahmud II purchased 50,000 Liege muskets in 1826, months before dissolving the Janissaries (Virginia Aksan mentions this in her books).