Faint of heart..stay home.

For those of you faint of heart or easily upset perhaps it would be wise to not read the rest of this, or at least read it and take a valium. ::
What ignition system is is fastest, assuming quality locks, and other parts:
The (yeeech!) in-line..
The flintlock....
The cap lock...
I'm asking about RIFLES, not shotguns, pistols etc., not that it would make much difference...just trying to eliminate some variables.
The Bedford county flinter I have seems to fire perhaps a tad faster than my cappers.
I lack the equipment to actually try and measure the "lock time" (for want of a better expression).
I've read that the well tuned flinter can be as fast or faster than a capper and the flame from the prime charge goes directly into the main charge via the touch hole, therefore the flinter has "direct" ignition, much the same as the cap lock underhammer and mule ear locks are direct ingnition.
I've also read that a well tuned flinter will fire BEFORE the cock comes to rest. The main charge having ignited milliseconds prior to the cock comming to rest.
I dunno. Any scientific data available here?
I've also read that a well made flintlock can be immersed in water and the prime charge will not get wet!!??

 

I've also read that a well made flintlock can be immersed in water and the prime charge will not get wet!!??

Does that mean I can hunt flatheads under water ::

 

[musketman]

Also, the route the prime charge takes must be concidered...

Inline take a direct shot into the barrel's main charge, as well as flint locks and some percussions... (mule's ear and under hammers)

Most percussion muzzleloader's cap's flame must make a 90 degree turn to get to the main charge, this takes time...

A flintlock will deposit it's priming flame directly into the main charge from the side, making a well tuned flintlock hard to beat...

Reaction time from shooter to shooter will make a difference as well, the same shooter should test all locks as to rule out the multi-shooters variable...

 

[Stumpkiller]

I've also read that a well made flintlock can be immersed in water and the prime charge will not get wet!!??

I'll answer with a definate "Maybe." Several "patent" pans were seperate from the curved flash guard, and were "free floating from the rest of the lock

Typical lock - water can run easily down into pan.

A little more 'advanced.' Lip around frizzen where it seals pan and channel to drain water away from pan.

Note the seperate priming pan of an 1820's Ketland copy.

This is the most waterproof by virtue of design plan.

The best is a quality lock with a very tight frizzen fit - all around the pan AND against the side of the barrel. A bit of beeswax rubbed around a closed frizzen can seal the priming charge away from moisture fairly well. Add a 'cows knee' over the top and it's very weatherproof. As for full immersion? I wouldn't bet on it - but I don't doubt it has been done. My big 'ol Bess style lock is suprisingly water-resistant - as long as I'm careful to keep it covered. ::

 

[davidthered]

Now wait a minute! I saw pirates of the Carribian and after walking on the bottom of the harbor, their flintlock pistols fired just fine. hummp!

::J/K!!!!

 

[Stumpkiller]

Yep. And Jack Sparrow's fired after carrying the same load for five years.

Talk about a dried up patch (he didn't walk under the harbor).

Still - I though that was the most entertaining movie I've seen in years. "Course, I'm biased. "R"

(Interesting sidenote - the flag on the Black Pearl was that of Captain Calico Jack Rackam's ship "Treasure".

He's most famous for taking his significant other, Anne Bonny , along a'pirating. As Calico Jack went to the gallows, the unrepentant Anne told him:" Had you fought like a man, you need not have been hanged like a dog." Named my dog after him. :

 

[musketman]

(Interesting sidenote - the flag on the Black Pearl was that of Captain Calico Jack Rackam's ship "Treasure".

He's most famous for taking his significant other, Anne Bonny , along a'pirating.

 

[musketman]

Here's a flag from the Pirate's of Pennant's... :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha

Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa Haaaaaaaaaaaa Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, I crack me up... :haha: ::

 

[Zonie]

At the risk of getting Keel Hauled by one of those pirates, I'll say the fastest has to be the inline.
Assuming we are talking about the time from the release of the sear, the inline firing pin only has a 1/2 (or less) inch stroke from full cock to hitting the primer. It is hitting the primer before the flint can hit the frizzen or the hammer can touch the cap on the nipple.

The flintlocks pan powder takes time to ignite, and the typical Percussion flame still has at least 1/4 inch to travel before it can get to any powder.

 

[roundball]

Yes, what he said

 

[Stumpkiller]

Yeah, and a .220 Swift would get downrange quick enough to negate any gains in ignition speed. So if you're gonna shoot a soulless weapon, you might as well stick to a cartridge arm instead of a devolved cartridge arm (aka 'in-line').

Earth & Water produce the tree (which in life captures Air) for the stock.
Earth & Fire produce iron for the barrel & lock
Earth & ancient Water yields the flint for the spark when striking iron - more fire.
Earth also produces blackpowder - which when introduced to the spark releases Wind and Fire.

A flintlock is just such a perfect system - it's almost alive.

 

[Zonie]

You folks will notice I didn't say the In-Line was better because the question wasn't "which is better". The question was which had a faster ignition.
IMO what a In-Line has in speed, power (read energy), ease of cleaning etc over the old styles can never make up for what I perceive as a lack of character.

The same is true with cartridge guns. Firepower? Speed of reloading? Long range accuracy? There are many modern rifles who all win over a Sharps, a rolling block, a falling block or trapdoor but IMO, the old (and some new) single shot rifles have a character which can never be matched by the new designs.

A gun is a tool. Some want the newest, some want the old style. Some like fancy, some like plain. Neither side will ever convince the other they have the best because each side wants the tool for different personal reasons.

I personally prefer history and character over function. That's why I love Black Powder Firearms and shooting them.

 

"I personally prefer history and character over function. That's why I love Black Powder Firearms and shooting them."

Wow Zonie that was eloquent. :applause: :applause:
I could have said it with more words, but I couldn't have said it with better words!
I have some nice modern guns, they gather dust now, but I have them, but they all lack character.
I have a Marlin 1895 in 45-70, one of one thousand. It has a tapered octagonal 26" barrel, and the 45-70 round is certainly a classic, but, nice as it is, it has no where near the character of a custom or semi custom flinter.
I have an 870 Remington 12 gauge, plastic stock, bead blasted finish, rugged enough to drag behind a jeep down a West Virginia back road and still it would function. It has great utilitarian value, very funtional, good dfense weapon, great for rainy day duck hunts, but, alas it had absolutely no character.

Zonie you really nailed down what a traditional rifle is all about.
Have you noticed that people that appreciate the fine lines, the noble character of a traditional rifle tend to have VALUES. Yeh, that which is fast disappearing in our society, VALUES. Work ethic, honesty, ability to think "out of the box".
But I digress, but so what.
Contrary to what some may believe I'm still entitled to my opinions, and so is everyone else. ::

 

Whew, roaddog! That's one ugly critter!

 

Yeehah! Stumpkiller!
The flintlock IS the king of ignitions and I'll prove it.
History tells us;
(rough estimates)
The matchlock was around for 30-40 years?
The wheellock was around for 40 years.
The flintlock claims 260 years!!!!!
The percussion was 40 years.
The rimfire cartridge, 10 years.
The centerfire cartridge, 135 years.

These numbers are based on the technology of that particular time period.
Soooooo, who's king?
By the way, Jim Chamber's late Ketland 1820 flint lock(original Siler parts), talk about fast! Why, its slicker than two eels copulating in a barrel of snot!!!!!
Manynames