Fantastically decorated muzzle loading pistol with Arabic writing

[Big_Blue]

Please help a man and his elderly father in law identify this pistol. I ran into them earlier today at my LGS. They had laid out on the counter what appeared from across the store to be a large Christmas tree ornament shaped like a pistol. But it wasn't a simple ornament at all--it was so much more.

I've placed a Photobucket link below with pictures of the pistol. I took pictures from as many angles as I could with my phone/camera. I'm hoping these pictures will be enough for somebody to identify the pistol.

One of the customer's in the shop said the barrel looked like it was about 69 caliber.

I will be contacting colleagues who work in the Middle East to ask them to translate the writing on the barrel. In the subject line of this thread I said the writing was Arabic, but to be honest--I don't really know what it is. What I do know is, it was beautiful.

The man's father in law picked up the pistol at an estate sale about 50 years ago. He has no idea what the history of the gun might be, but he's mighty curious to learn more about it.

I'm going to send an email to the gentleman who brought the gun in and have him monitor this forum. Feel free to ask him questions.
http://s1272.photobucket.com/user/Michael_R_Mardis/slideshow/TEMP/Musket Pistol 150123

 

[MacRob46]

The problem with providing much detailed information on guns with a Middle Eastern provenance is that they were made in such huge numbers, in so many different styles with profuse decoration making it very difficult, absent documentation, to find much detail regarding maker, location, etc. Also complicating the situation is the fact that many of them are still being produced and artificially aged for the tourist trade. However, that being said, I will take a stab at it.

Translating the Arabic on the barrel probably won't be any help in gathering any detail about the gun. It is probably just prayers or something like that. The gun is in very good condition although I wonder about the holes in the side plate. Perhaps at one time it was attached to a wall or plaque and the holes were for the hardware. I suspect this is a Turkish pistol. The Ottoman Empire, as huge as it was, had a pressing need for weapons of all kinds and there were many gun makers within its boundaries. The ornamentation, while not typical of military pieces, was almost mandatory for civilian guns. The studs on this gun look very much like those found on a similar pistol, probably converted to percussion, which appears in Pistols of the World by Claude Blair. The pistol in the book is Turkish, supposedly from the mid-19th c. and has a back action lock. The lock panel looks to me like the gun may have been originally a flintlock with the back action percussion lock being a replacement but that is speculation on my part. Aside from that I have nothing to add.

The pistol is very nice but whether or not it is a true antique is subject to debate.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

I wouldn't know if the marks are Arabic, Farsi or cambodian or something else. Frankly similar styles were made from Morroco to Pakistan and everywhere in between. There are a few experts who can sometimes identify the area and time period of origin. The other problem is that styles did not change much for three hundred years.

 

[smoothshooter]

I have seen several guns of this type over the years. It is ironic that for as much work that has obviously gone into a pistol of this type, they seldom bring much money because of the unknown metallurgy, and, as someone else has stated, it is almost impossible to tell what century it was made in. It could even have been made in the 20th century and used hard or artificially aged.

 

[rickystl]

Hi Big Blue. That is a very nice Turkish Kubar (Horse) Pistol. Likely made at one of the many gun making centers in the Balkans. Probably early to Mid 19th Century. And this is an extra nice example. But it is also typical of the pistols produced throughout the Ottoman Empire. As mentioned above, these guns were used virtually unchanged for some 200+ years. Which is why there are so many surviving examples still available today. This, and the fact there are only a small group of collectors for these guns, tends to hold the price for these guns to a far lesser value than their American/European counterparts. Most of the Mid-East collectors are into the blades and armor. There were also European made guns decorated for export to the Eastern markets. Two quick ways to tell this was a locally made pistol would be the grooves on the frizzen and a "false" or lack of a ramrod.
Again, it is an extra nice, representative example of a early/mid 19th Century Turkish Kubar Pistol. Sure would not mind having it in my collection. Hope this helps. Rick.

 

[Maxem0815]

Interesting enough a lot of these types of guns are made for the tourist trade. The Son of a friend brought one back from Afghanistan made about 1990. If the ornate but is real silver and the barrel decorations are gold it is much older but dating it could be imposable. It is important to note that a lot of old looking guns from that region are fake and that they have been manufacturing these guns in small shops fore 100's of years.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Yeah for all we know the writing says, "Made for the Tourist Trade by the Abu Simball souvenir company, Isanbul." Or it could say, "Made for Caliph Mustapha III, ruler of the Ottomans", and worth tens of thousands of dollars (if true) :idunno:

LD

 

[Stophel]

I would have guessed North African, but I'm no expert in this field. Few, if any, people are, actually. As has been said, there is very little interest in them, they were made in the zillions (and maybe still are?), USUALLY of fairly poor quality, even if profusely decorated. Sometimes you run across a very high quality gun from the 18th century, but not that often.

 

[crockett]

I agree about Turkish origin- that was my first impulse. I think quite common but could be wrong. On value, try to pick up a magazine called "Men at Arms", it is a gun collector's publication and loaded with ads from various dealers. You could email some of the dealers the pistol's image and maybe get a rough idea on the value.

 

[satx78247]

IF it was my pistol, I would first take it to a local jeweler & have him/her determine if the decoration is REAL gold/silver/precious stones or NOT.
(Any reputable jeweler can tell you if the decorations are real or faux, in 5 minutes.)

If the stones/decorations are real gems/gold/silver, I would spends the money to have the handgun professionally appraised.
Otherwise, I would use (or sell) it as a "decorator piece".

If a person has the money, a firearm of high/medium/low quality can be made today by an individual gunsmith/small shop, in any number of Eastern nations. ======> During the RVN War, I knew of a gunsmith in Hue,RVN, who made a number of "fine quality English shotguns" (in your choice of well-known UK firms = RIGBY or PURDEY, anyone?) that would "fool" most experts.
(I also know of a LTG, USAF Retired, who had a "Smithsonian museum quality" antique necklace copied in gold & precious gems for his wife in Thailand, that would be very difficult to tell from the priceless original.)

just my OPINION, satx

 

[laufer]

turkish kubura, made between 1700 and 1880s somewhere in eastern turkey or in the turkish parts of the balkans, bosnia or macedonia/ greece.