favorite cleaner

[Stumpkiller]

Doncha ever hunt in the rain? Heck, I been out in conditions where the inside of my wallet was full of water. If I didn't go after whitetails in rain, sleet or falling snow I'd only have a couple days a year. Guns are built to be used outdoors. They ain't candy. Slip a greased cow's knee over the lock, find a hemlock to sit under and dream about a warm bath. Don't you think your poor, dear smokepole feels the same way? But when you get home leave the gun outdoors until you're ready to clean it, and be ready to clean it before you drop into the sack.

Water doesn't hurt the metal on a gun. Salts and acids in the fouling hurt the gun. The trick is to use enough water to flush all the salts and acids away, then chase the water off.

Here are two good descriptions of hot water cleaning:

http://www.owlhollowgunclub.org/stories/ml-maint.html

Cleaning a muzzleloader with hot soapy water

 

[Griz]

I knew I'd go and get someone wound up, should've just read and not posted. All I am saying is what happened to me and that what I am currently using works good for me so if it ain't broke I don't fix it. I was just wondering what every one else used to clean with, that's all. Sorry :shocking:

 

[Stumpkiller]

Nah. I ain't wound up. I is too loosly wrapped to be wound up. I just enjoy spreadin my point of view to those unfortunate enough not to share it. :winking:

This is a discussion board. If we all thought the same way and agreed on everything it would die, and rightly so. I'll be the first to admit I know a little but type a lot.

 

[Ohio Joe]

Griz,,, I too experienced some problems with the bore butter in my T/C Hawken... I always felt that the shallow depth of rifling (.005) was to blame as it would not take long for my accuracy to go down hill after five to seven shots and I was even swabbing between shots... I used bore butter in my (.008) depth rifling CVA rifles, and the (.010 to .011) depth rifling in my GMB's, and Ed Rayl barrel, and it worked great with the deeper rifling... I started to cut the bore butter with crisco veg. shortening (50/50) and that worked great in the T/C Hawken, but not in the other deeper depthed rifling??? I do like the Trappers Mink Oil for patch lube however in that deeper rifling. It has out performed the T/C Bore Butter... Now I know I was, and am getting my barrels clean as I always use the bore brush with my concoctions of cleaning fluids, and after they're good and dry they get the sheath oil, and I've experienced no rusty colored patches... So, when you say you had trouble with the T/C Bore Butter, I can believe that...

 

Someone said we all use what works for us and by gum and by golly that's all that's required. I know where and how I store my firearms here in the humid Missouri Ozarks has a considerable impact. I couldn't find anything that would truly prevent rust (we're talking 12-15 years ago) until I bought a big gun safe and put a Goldenrod in it. After that it seemed everything worked just fine.....but it was more the controlled environment I was storing my firearms in than the effect of any of the products available at that time. Preservatives and lubricants have come a long way since then and I'm quite sure they are more effective.

I had a big problem with using boiling water down the barrel of a muzzleloader until I tried it and it worked better, for me, than anything else. I've never had the slightest problem with boiling water and bore butter and I do believe it is the best out there, and I've tried a bunch of them (windshield washer fluid and many combinations of it, the MAP stuff, a 50-50 mix of RV anti-freeze and denatured alcohol and too many others to remember)....let me qualify that....for me and my methods I believe it's the best.

Man....if something works for you and you like it, that's the best there is!!!! I'm happy with my methods, they work admirably for me. If you're happy with yours and they work for you then they're perfect.

Vic

 

Hey Griz, mind a little personal advice???? Well you're gettin' it anawho! Quit apologizing! There is no need to. We all know you are not trying to b e offensive in any way and you have a RIGHT to voice your opinion. If I don't like what you say that's tough doo-doo!
I have a right to my opinions too and, trust me on this one, I'm well known for being rather vocal. You are NOT offending anyone.
As far as the bore butter thing, IF you cleaned your rifle very well, got out all the moisture, the bore butter will absolutely prevent rust. Period. End of story. I've hot water cleaned muzzle loaders, dryed them completely, then slather the SH&T out of them with melted bore butter and stored them up to a year with no rust, corrosion, nothing!
Now about the loss of accuracy with bullets lubed with bore butter or any other bullet lube. Here's a little known fact. People use way too much of the stuff. Those big deep grooves in the Maxiball (nice name for a bullet what?)do NOT need to be packed with lube. In fact just a surface coating of lube is enough and some people load the slightly lubed bullet then run a dry patch down the bore to wipe out excess grease!
Listen, when the big light comes on and that fat heavy lead bullet obturates to fill the shallow .005 T/C grooves and the bullet is full of grease, the lead may not be able to fill the rifling grooves. If that happens, guess what? The bullet may not grab the rifling enough to spin properly and accuracy goes south in a real hurry.
Remember, lube, oil, grease, is like any other liquid. They don't compress very well and too much lube is a very bad thing in shallow groove rifling.
Learn something everyday huh?
Anyone care to debate this tid-bit of info?
I love controversy.
By the way, for you WD-40 fans...the stuff sucks. There are much better rust preventative lubes that won't gum up like WD. I use the stuff for lossening stuck parts, rust scale and such, but as a gun lube???? hell no, it sucks.
By the way, the reason we have a 1st amendment is because we have a 2nd amendment.
Now clean your gun well, remove all traces of moisture and bore butter the sh$t out of it, it'll be fine. ::

 

[sse]

I've come to the conclusion, after reading all of this, that its not really the substance used after cleaning to protect the bore as much as the process used to get the water out of the barrel. So far the suggestions are quick drying hot water, rubbing alcohol, WD-40, denatured alcohol.

I use some Simple Green or Murphy's Oil Soap to clean, but I think the tricky part really is getting the barrel thoroughly dry. I don't have a hooked breech so in the process, I'm concerned with having the cleaning, as well as the drying, substances dripping all over the lock and stock. Sometimes it gets so messy I think I should be wearing a poncho. Anyway, I'll just keep slopping around with everything until I can figure out a way to keep it more tidy.

Regards, sse

 

[roundball]

You need to quit being so shy...don't hold back...speak your mind! :: ::

Interesting comment about the excess lube though...I had just the opposite experience...stumbled across a couple dozen boxes of .45cal UNLUBED TC Maxi-Hunters at a steal so I bought them...got one of those .45cal lubers that screws onto a tube of Natural Lube 1000, and lubed up a few boxes. They were totally covered/smeared with the stuff so that handling them was very messy.

I loaded them into some TC 4-N-1 Quick Shots to make them cleaner handling and to ensure perfect bore alignment, range tested them in a TC Hawken 1:48" barrel, and got clover leafs at 50yds just shooting from a chair, not even a bench...outstanding accuracy in spite of the maximum amount of lube possible...go figure

 

[Griz]

I've never used anything other than patched round balls. and I used the bore butter as a patch lube and very little of it and after cleaning before storing. I guess I stirred up enough trouble for now. Hmmm, what will my next mess be? :: Give me some time and I will come up with more controversy Thanks for all the input. I guess I'll hang around a little longer, if I am allowed.

 

[Griz]

Here is one for all of you. I have found a bore brush called Tynex made by Dupont. If you get a chance to try one of these brushes do so. They will out last any bronze phosphorus on the market and when you get to the breech they turn much easier than the bronze when you are pulling it back out. I know Dixie Gun Works has them. They work great. I can't find them on the net at Dixie but they are in the section with the cleaning brushes.

 

Click Here For Dupont Tynex Bore Brushes (Hoppes - Blackpowder Calibers)

Click Here For Pistola Calibers

 

[Griz]

Thanks T7

 

[Darkhorse]

I guess I must be old fashioned cause I use old fashion stuff like cotten patches, clean water and gravity to clean my muzzleoaders. Sometimes a little soap doesn't hurt but I don't really think it's neccessary.
Black powder residue is water soluble. Water is cheap and available most anywhere.
If you ever use one of those flintlock cleaning devices with the tube that goes in a bucket of water then you will see just how fast water dissolves BP residue. Any other manmade concoction is totally unnecessary and complicated. For anything besides water to work any better and faster it would have to clean your rifle on its own before you shot it.
After cleaning I turn my barrel upside down and let gravity drain the water from the breech and bore.
Then I will concede to a little WD 40 to displace the water before I oil the bore.
I bought my first ML in 1976 and I still hunt with it occasionally. I guess when it finally rusts I will think about using something besides water.
I like Wonder Lube for shooting and when I was using it for rust protection I never had a problem. I don't use it anymore for my bores though, now I use Jim Chambers rust inhibiting oil. Maybe in a year or so I'll find out bore butter was better. We will see.

I am a little more complicated about cleaning my modern rifles though. Nobody ever said water was good at breaking down copper fouling.

 

[riarcher]

The ominouse Bore Butter debate still continues. ::
I swear by it! (I know, others swear at it :winking
This method eliminated the "1st shot flyers" for me. Important not to be shooting a "fouling round" in by area at 4:00am before a hunt.
I too do the (near) boiling pump action cleaning routine to get things hot and cleaned. While still hot, several dry patches, and a healthy dose of bore butter.
At the range, a small squirt bottle of 50-50 Windex/409 (or fantastic)to dampen the edges of a patch and one pass in and out each shot keeps everything together on the paper,, consistantly, first shot to last (if I do my part).
Really don't understand the BB issues, something has got to be different. Method? Barrel's steel? (puzzling indeed :Anyways, never had a rust problem with it,,,, but, I have with oil and WD-40. ::

 

[roundball]

I agree...the only way rust forms in a bore is if it's:
1) Not 100% cleaned
2) Not 100% dried
3) Not 100% lubed

If you find rust in a bore, one of those steps was not done 100% properly.

And if steps #1 and #2 are done properly, then any lube will do...all that's required is to keep the bore's surface coated so air can't touch it after it's 100% cleaned and 100% dried.

 

[Ohio Joe]

Exactly! There simply are no shortcuts to proper cleaning, care, and maintenance of one's firearms... :no:

 

Wait a cotton-pickin' minute fellas!

Why is it that Birchwood Casey Sheath (for example) allows for a cleaning/gun-storing mistake & Bore Butter doesn't???

Aren't we all human beings or dogs prone to making a mistake once or twice in our lifetime? Is it our fault that our child/puppy interrupts us in the middle of our ML cleaning & we get distracted in some way-shape or form??

I refuse to buy, use or promote a rust protectant that won't allow for my once-in-a-lifetime mistake. I'm not going to take a chance that my MLs might become a rust-bucket when all I need to do is switch to a water-soluble bore preserver.
=======================================================
RIArcher says...

"This method eliminated the "1st shot flyers" for me. Important not to be shooting a "fouling round" in by area at 4:00am before a hunt."

=======================================================

The opposite happened when I & my shootin bud' kitty cat shot our clean barrel loads with bore butter in it.... my target hole placement was worse than shooting the clean MLs with an absolute dry or Ballistol/Lehigh Valley-lubed bore.

Believe me... I test ML products all the time... SOMETIMES like American Pioneer powder recently -- for an entire weekend to grasp what the powder does in nice & foul weather. Anyways, we tried different methods with the bore butter. We tried it heavy & light -- we tried it seasoned & unseasoned - we tried applying it with a jag & bore brush -- different temperature ranges... etc.... no workie!! Nice bullet/patch lube though!!!!!!

OK now! This thread is not to be continued by me... I'm now declaring myself offically a " Dog Ghost" on this thread. I said enough.... "Hasta -La-Vista Baby / Ruf-Ruf"

 

[sse]

Why is it that Birchwood Casey Sheath (for example) allows for a cleaning/gun-storing mistake & Bore Butter doesn't???

Dunno.

Aren't we all human beings or dogs prone to making a mistake once or twice in our lifetime?

Yes.

Is it our fault that our child/puppy interrupts us in the middle of our ML cleaning & we get distracted in some way-shape or form??

Yes.

OK now! This thread is not to be continued by me... I'm now declaring myself offically a " Dog Ghost" on this thread. I said enough.... "Hasta -La-Vista Baby / Ruf-Ruf"

Sawright.

sse