Fed Excise Tax

[Zonie]

There may come a time when I decide to build rifles/pistols for others. I know somewhere there is a line over which one does not cross before Uncle Sam decides he wants in on the money, but I am not sure where it is with recreations of 200 year old guns.

I do not want anyone here to tell me that they violate the law, and I don't want to know, even if you do but I would like to hear about how this taxation applies to us (if it does).

I read (on another site) where one guy insists that the customer will buy the parts and then he just "helps" the buyer put them together. While I am sure this is quite legal, does it remove the obligation of paying U.S.?

Any thoughts on this?? :: :: ::

 

[musketman]

I would think that if you build a gun for someone to buy (even from a kit), that would make you a manufacture and you would have to be licensed...

The tax issue would take second place to an unlicensed firearm manufacturer...
:imo:

 

[Randal Zartman]

Zonie, good question. I was wanting to post a similar question. What about the manufacturer's liability associated with making a gun for someone else? :: As far as an "unlicensed firearm manufacturer", does the government consider a muzzleloader a firearm? I am under the impression they do not do a criminal background check when purchasing a muzzleloader. As far as "helping the buyer", the builder never owned the gun is the thinking behind this. Where are the "good" attornies when you need their free advise. :haha: The other possibility is that the builder receives a "gift" for his help. :m2c:
Zman

 

[JOHN L. HINNANT]

Greetings Zonie,

John Bivins fought this battle all the way through the federal court system and lost. He built nothing but black powder rifles and fowlers and was considered by the feds to be a manufacturer and subject to all rules and taxation.

Contact the NRA and the NMLRA for the complete details. Specifically reference John Bivins.

Best regards, John L. Hinnant

 

[Griz]

This is just an experience I had, I am certainly no expert;
A builder that I had bought 2 rifles from, sold the first in 2 slips at half the price of the rifle on each slip and called it parts, which he said set him free from the 11% tax. The second one that I bought he said he couldn't do that any more and I had to pay the tax on a completed rifle. :m2c:

 

[Keith]

Contact the ATF and ask. They have a website and local/regional offices. I was at first surprised to read that people thought ML would be treated this way then I remebered that we are talking taxes. ML may not be firearms for regulatory purposes, but for tax ... that is something else.

 

[Zonie]

Musketman: As far as needing a Fed license goes I think there is no problem. I think they only get interested if it is a cartridge gun. If you do any work on a cartridge gun not owned by you, you must have a Fed License.

As far as liability for injury, if it can be proven someone was hurt/killed because of your work/materials etc, your in deep doo-do. Even if it was not your fault, it could cost a fortune prooving it. For instance, how do you prove the idiot loaded 300 grains of FFFFg behine a double ball load unless you have a witness that will testify for you.

As for lawyers giving free advice, I don't think that's in their vocabulary. My son is a lawyer and I don't think he would willingly give me any Free advise unless it was to tell me I'm voting for the wrong party.

 

[wulf]

The John Bivins story is fact. He had to change his title to
"Gun Stocker". Not Maker.....When you have to deal with somebody who has a desk....you are in trouble but when they have a computer on that desk..your lost forever.

 

[wulf]

Second thought,,,I was going to go into it myself. I made the rifling machine and had the proto type for the lock, then I began getting parts together for the stock duplicator
when I realized this was a mistake...too much work for too
little pay...People don't want to pay for a custom gun when
they can buy a kit or get a T.C. I just didn't think the demand was there for the investment. I concentrated on my trade and saved guns for a hobby....Good choice!!!!For me..

 

[shmrck1]

zonie
I :agree:with you on all counts!!!!!! it has to be very hard having a son as a lawyer but it could be worse
you could be paying a lawyer to defend your son!!!!
be proud which i'am sure you are.
:thumbsup: :master:
snake-eyes

 

[GobblerKnob]

I researched some on the ATF website and have included some information on my website about this. Rather than repeat it here, I encourage you to go to: www.gobblerknoblongrifles.com and click on the longrfifles page.
Below the bank of photos, you'll see a sentence about excise tax responsibility. You'll also see the liability waiver. Click on the link to view. You ust have Adobe installed on your computer.
Rick

 

[Stumpkiller]

Most gunsmiths I have been in contact with in the last few months are asking that a customer purchase a lock and barrel before any contract is drawn up (establishing the customer as the owner) and then present them to the gunsmith for final finish and having the wood & c. added around them. This works well in our modular mid-price muzzleloaders, but it will put a crip in the truly custom guns built from pieces of metal to the ciustomer's requirements. I think you're going to see more shops like Fred Miller, the barrel inletter master, who focus on facets of the process instead of full-spectrum gunsmiths. Pity. 11% is a big chunk of change on an already high-priced firearm. Be glad that muzzleloaders (for the most part) lack a receiver and just suddenly appear as guns when the parts are bolted or pinned to a piece of wood.

Born free, taxed to death.

There may come a time when I decide to build rifles/pistols for others.

Put me on the waiting list. I've picked on you enough that you deserve some payback. Maybe a nice .32 squirrel flinter. Just keep the inlays under seven pounds in total weight. :haha: