This is varmint hunting opinion question.feral cats & Dogs live or let die?I own cats and dogs,but I realize the ecological destruction that these Feral predators wreck!Many animals world wide have been hunted to extinction by them. :hmm:
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Feral Cats & Dogs!!!
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CrackStock
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Everyone has opinions, but you had better check your state and local laws. Many have enacted protections for various animals.
CS
CS
Generally speaking, unless one wants to "make a statement" within your neighborhood or community, shooting feral animals is best approached as a "don't ask/don't tell" function.
If you choose to make it known to others, then don't be surprised with any negative fallout as there likely will be these days.
Vic
If you choose to make it known to others, then don't be surprised with any negative fallout as there likely will be these days.
Vic
gmww
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Very good points about neighborhoods. I was thinking more in terms of in the countryside where folks dump unwanted pets. I've been to a few ranches where the rancher made it clear if we see any dogs on the property to shoot them first. The feral dogs were forming packs and taking domestic stock and deer.
What made it really bad was many of the dead animals weren't eaten just killed.
Interestingly enough last year the farm I hunted had feral cats all over the place. Turns out the owner wanted them to control the gopher population. Worked well according to the farmer.
What made it really bad was many of the dead animals weren't eaten just killed.
Interestingly enough last year the farm I hunted had feral cats all over the place. Turns out the owner wanted them to control the gopher population. Worked well according to the farmer.
This question came up way back when I took my first course in wildlife biology. The Prof's reply-and you ain't going to like it-was that feral house cats,while these animals did retain SOME of their predator nature, were no threat what-so-ever to about any game species. An ocasional bird at the bird feeder,but not to quail,dove,turkey or pheasants.(Bird feeders concentrate song birds making it easy!).
Dogs running in the woods are even less threat to wildlife than feral cats.Not what you want to hear,is it? :shocked2:. Dogs can't even begin to compare to coyotes when it comes to making a living in the woods,and yodel dogs are no threat to HEALTHY individuals of about any species of wildlife other than rats,mice,an occasional bunnie,lizzards,snakes,scorpions,dung beetles,etc etc....oh yea-and watermelons!
I surely don't mean to come across as being a sexual intellectual on the subject,and I certainly don't mean to offend anyone. It is as natural as the day is long for folks to assume and think that feral cats and dogs running the woods are a danger to wildlife.Sadly,though,few folks have an understanding of predator/prey relationships,and it is truly an intensively interesting area of study! (Just pull my chain,and I'll tell you all about predator/quail relationships :haha
Now....will I kill a feral cat in the woods? You better believe it!! My little H.House .32cal squirrel rifle is deadly on cats and armadillos :winking:. Dogs are different,however. I grew up hunting with dogs...Plotts,Walkers,Triggs,all the hounds almost,and I love hunting now with dogs.Besides,as pointed out above,there are serious legal issues associated with killing "stray" dogs in the woods.Agravating at times,sure....but not serious enough to shoot one.
Dogs running in the woods are even less threat to wildlife than feral cats.Not what you want to hear,is it? :shocked2:. Dogs can't even begin to compare to coyotes when it comes to making a living in the woods,and yodel dogs are no threat to HEALTHY individuals of about any species of wildlife other than rats,mice,an occasional bunnie,lizzards,snakes,scorpions,dung beetles,etc etc....oh yea-and watermelons!
I surely don't mean to come across as being a sexual intellectual on the subject,and I certainly don't mean to offend anyone. It is as natural as the day is long for folks to assume and think that feral cats and dogs running the woods are a danger to wildlife.Sadly,though,few folks have an understanding of predator/prey relationships,and it is truly an intensively interesting area of study! (Just pull my chain,and I'll tell you all about predator/quail relationships :haha
Now....will I kill a feral cat in the woods? You better believe it!! My little H.House .32cal squirrel rifle is deadly on cats and armadillos :winking:. Dogs are different,however. I grew up hunting with dogs...Plotts,Walkers,Triggs,all the hounds almost,and I love hunting now with dogs.Besides,as pointed out above,there are serious legal issues associated with killing "stray" dogs in the woods.Agravating at times,sure....but not serious enough to shoot one.
I have the mixed blessing of living near a city, but far enough out that I have a river for a front yard and a good corner in the road to hide behind. We get "gifted" bags of garbage, old christmas trees and the occasional cat or dog. In the yards, the county dog warden will come take care of the pooches, but a few make it to the woods up behind the house (many more are young and inexperienced and are taken care of by the greatest predator hereabouts: Michelins traveling in packs of four ).
Unless I spot an animal being a nuisance I temper my wrath by remembering that on my road are several elderly widows/widowers who are from the age whan cats went out at night and dogs came in, and they were also given free roam any time in between. I make it a point to note who belongs to someone, and who might be a new face. Where I used to hunt was a German Shepard who had lost her tail to a car. Her name was "Penny" and, amazingly, she lived to a ripe old age in spite of her habit of visiting gut piles during deer season. I can't tell you how many times I heard footsteps and got ready, only to see Penny come trotting through the woods ~ sometimes over a mile from home! Her owner was in her 80's and Penny was her only company.
I also have a 98 year old neighbor who has a "stray" that sleeps with him at night. No collar, scruffy as a chimney brush, but someone's friend. none the less. He refuses to name it, "cause it ain't stayin", but every time I visit lately it's hopping off his lap when I arrive.
I'm REAL certain before I do any "introduced species readjustments"
). Unless I spot an animal being a nuisance I temper my wrath by remembering that on my road are several elderly widows/widowers who are from the age whan cats went out at night and dogs came in, and they were also given free roam any time in between. I make it a point to note who belongs to someone, and who might be a new face. Where I used to hunt was a German Shepard who had lost her tail to a car. Her name was "Penny" and, amazingly, she lived to a ripe old age in spite of her habit of visiting gut piles during deer season. I can't tell you how many times I heard footsteps and got ready, only to see Penny come trotting through the woods ~ sometimes over a mile from home! Her owner was in her 80's and Penny was her only company.
I also have a 98 year old neighbor who has a "stray" that sleeps with him at night. No collar, scruffy as a chimney brush, but someone's friend. none the less. He refuses to name it, "cause it ain't stayin", but every time I visit lately it's hopping off his lap when I arrive.
I'm REAL certain before I do any "introduced species readjustments"
gmww
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The ranches I've had the occassion to hunt where feral dogs were a pest were on the Island of Molokai. The Hawaiian islands don't have coyotes or wolves. Just wild dogs that get let loose or are abandoned. The only preditor Axis deer in Hawaii have are humans and dogs.
Elsewhere in the islands feral dogs pose a risk to Monk seals and nesting birds. Here's a cut and past from the DNR on feral cats, dogs and Mongoose. The Mongoose was brought into the islands to control rodents but became a nuisance themselves.
Needless to say, feral dogs and cats in Hawaii is not a good thing to wildlife.
Another good article about feral dogs comes from the National Geographic titled US facing Feral dog crisis.
Elsewhere in the islands feral dogs pose a risk to Monk seals and nesting birds. Here's a cut and past from the DNR on feral cats, dogs and Mongoose. The Mongoose was brought into the islands to control rodents but became a nuisance themselves.
Needless to say, feral dogs and cats in Hawaii is not a good thing to wildlife.
Another good article about feral dogs comes from the National Geographic titled US facing Feral dog crisis.
3 stinky dogs
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Wouldn't even be an issue if there owners would spay and neuter them. Unfortunately I would rather have the wild game running around instead if feral domestic animals. I say shoot them. Most states, county, city, will jail you for doing it though. As was sed earlier don't ask don't tell.
3 stinky dogs
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The Fish and Game officers that watched over the 98 and 1990 pheasant season in union county Iowa would disagree with your instructor on that one. I remember those years there and how drastically the pheasant population declined. Sure it was bad for the bards weather wise but the decline was directly related to "Barn Cats". Ron Jurek feels the same way and sed as much in this article for National Geographic [url] http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/09/0907_040907_feralcats_2.html[/url] this covers both sides of the issue as far as cats go. Now for dogs. To deer they may not be a big deal but they will and do kill live stock. I saw this daily when I lived in Tennessee. Allot of people would find dead calf's and dead sheep with there back legs ripped up and chewed on but not eaten. I have even seen pictures of shot Yaller dogs that were caught in the act . Feral animals are a danger to wild game , domestic live stock, and public health and they need to be rounded up and re domesticated or euthanized or in the worst case scenario shot on sight. This is some more good reading here [url] http://texnat.tamu.edu/ranchref/predator/dogs/dogs.htm[/url]
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Maybe the best course would be to ask the local DNR officer about the situation. I know back in the 90's in Louisiana the local DNR office told everyone to shoot on site Feral dogs and Cats. But that was back in the "Day" when nobody gave a second thought or look at 4 teenage boys walking around the woods with .22 rifles.
gmww
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Here's a proposal to control feral dogs, and other preditors from 2002 by Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service (APHIS). The M-44 Sodium Cyanide Ejector Mechanism
Unfortunately they have not gone away. A google search will bring you to several articles from around the world on the impact of Feral dogs on domestic and wildlife. Australia's Dingo population is facing extinction. One cause cited is the feral dog.
Here's an article closer to home from St. Petersburg times in Tampa bay dated Nov. 5, 2005.
Officials briefly closes Wall Springs park because of the Feral dog pack. Feral dog fatally shot by officer
Don't get me wrong, I love dogs. I have a Yellow lab that I hunt with. It's the feral dogs that run in packs killing for the sake of killing I have a problem with. Detroit was had a problem with them in the city.
In some states, feral dogs fall in the same category as coyotes.
Unfortunately they have not gone away. A google search will bring you to several articles from around the world on the impact of Feral dogs on domestic and wildlife. Australia's Dingo population is facing extinction. One cause cited is the feral dog.
Here's an article closer to home from St. Petersburg times in Tampa bay dated Nov. 5, 2005.
Officials briefly closes Wall Springs park because of the Feral dog pack. Feral dog fatally shot by officer
Don't get me wrong, I love dogs. I have a Yellow lab that I hunt with. It's the feral dogs that run in packs killing for the sake of killing I have a problem with. Detroit was had a problem with them in the city.
In some states, feral dogs fall in the same category as coyotes.
Around here the farmers and ranchers shoot about any that they see in the patures with livestock. I like both dogs and cats, but if they are running wild, and causing damage or are a threat to people, which dogs in packs are, then they need to be shot.
Wyoming classifies stray cats as a "predatory" species, same as coyotes. That means you can shoot as many of them as you find year 'round with no license required. Since there are so many irresposible pet owners who allow their cats to breed unchecked, it is an unfortunate fact that a lot of felines are removed from the food chain out here via bullets and buckshot.
Stray dogs are another matter. They are handled by Animal Control or Game and Fish (or farmers/ranchers who see them on their property). If they become pack animals or damage livestock, they are killed on sight. Otherwise they are brought to the shelter. If they are healthy and non-violent, they will be kept there until they find a home, however long that takes.
As for the stray cats, dogs, and coyotes not having much of an impact on game species or larger mammals...I'd say the person who foisted that bit of :bull: is trying to forward an agenda with little basis in fact. (Not surprising considering the radically left-leaning tendencies of the majority of university pedagogues recently. :shake What about the communicable diseases many stray domestic animals get? What about when dogs pack up? They have been videotaped chasing down deer in addition to the aforementioned domestic livestock. Packs of coyotes can and do kill large animals regularly out here...all the way up to moose.
Stray animals are a very real threat to game populations and even people (care to guess how many folks are mauled every year by feral dogs?). As has been pointed out above, in some cases it is best to just SSS (shoot, shovel, and shut up) if an obviously feral cat or dog is encountered in the country...especially if it is aggressive.
I love animals...I don't take thier lives lightly (rodents and insects are exceptions), but domestic animals are not a natural part of the ecosystem, a fact supported by numerous government and private research studies. As wild animals do not belong in the home as pets, neither do domestic animals have a place in the wilds. It is with a heavy heart I pull the trigger on a cat, but I find succor in the fact that I am doing my part to conserve the natural order and acting as a steward of the land.
Sorry 'bout the lengthy diatribe :yakyak: , but this is an excellent topic and well worthy of discussion.
:thumbsup:
Stray dogs are another matter. They are handled by Animal Control or Game and Fish (or farmers/ranchers who see them on their property). If they become pack animals or damage livestock, they are killed on sight. Otherwise they are brought to the shelter. If they are healthy and non-violent, they will be kept there until they find a home, however long that takes.
As for the stray cats, dogs, and coyotes not having much of an impact on game species or larger mammals...I'd say the person who foisted that bit of :bull: is trying to forward an agenda with little basis in fact. (Not surprising considering the radically left-leaning tendencies of the majority of university pedagogues recently. :shake
What about the communicable diseases many stray domestic animals get? What about when dogs pack up? They have been videotaped chasing down deer in addition to the aforementioned domestic livestock. Packs of coyotes can and do kill large animals regularly out here...all the way up to moose. Stray animals are a very real threat to game populations and even people (care to guess how many folks are mauled every year by feral dogs?). As has been pointed out above, in some cases it is best to just SSS (shoot, shovel, and shut up) if an obviously feral cat or dog is encountered in the country...especially if it is aggressive.
I love animals...I don't take thier lives lightly (rodents and insects are exceptions), but domestic animals are not a natural part of the ecosystem, a fact supported by numerous government and private research studies. As wild animals do not belong in the home as pets, neither do domestic animals have a place in the wilds. It is with a heavy heart I pull the trigger on a cat, but I find succor in the fact that I am doing my part to conserve the natural order and acting as a steward of the land.
Sorry 'bout the lengthy diatribe :yakyak: , but this is an excellent topic and well worthy of discussion.
:thumbsup:
Feral cats are responsible for significantly reducing the songbird population as well as many "non-game" species in many areas. I have a tendency to second guess my intention (beliefs ?)when taking a bead or sighting on a target such as a feral cat. When feral dogs form a pack, then there are definite problems and they must be eradicated. I have a small farm and tolerate zero problems with any stray critter. In my case, the worst problem I have with canines is coyotes digging for dinner in my pastures and hay fields.
Nonetheless, I'm not out to kill something without a reason.
Regards, Vic
Nonetheless, I'm not out to kill something without a reason.
Regards, Vic
In WI it is illegal to shoot cats and only game wardens can kill dogs. The real problem is knowing if an animal is stray or not. My mom’s cat was shot out of tree by our neighbor, because it woke him up. My dogs on several occasions have brought home the legs of deer of winter and unfound hunter’s kills. I sure hope someone wouldn’t blow them away for eating a deer that’s been dead for three months.
As for cats, I don’t know if de Forster’s wildlife professor was all that well informed. Feral cats a serious problem for wildlife, perhaps not so much for game birds, however I can’t see them not relishing young pheasants and quail. When I was young my cats brought home many song birds including mourning doves and a many young rabbits and once a full grown cottontail.
Personally I won’t kill cats and dogs, but my mauser and my 12 gauge have scared them from coming back. :grin:
Rusty
As for cats, I don’t know if de Forster’s wildlife professor was all that well informed. Feral cats a serious problem for wildlife, perhaps not so much for game birds, however I can’t see them not relishing young pheasants and quail. When I was young my cats brought home many song birds including mourning doves and a many young rabbits and once a full grown cottontail.
Personally I won’t kill cats and dogs, but my mauser and my 12 gauge have scared them from coming back. :grin:
Rusty
Hmm...it has been over twenty years since I lived in WI. That said...any dog or cat seen back then in the woods or fields was a dead one...no questions asked. Seems to me today we have adopted a kinda silly attitude about this. Simply put, one; any stray or abandoned pet simply does not have the benefit of being raised in the wild...most starve before they achieve the ability to thrive in the wild. IMO. Two; assuming they did survive don't try to tell me they won't go after anything they can. Hence, they fall into the varmint class imo.
I've got the real problem in my backyard.
They arent feral, they are dogs and cats of my neighbors... or moreso the ones that 'feel sorry' for them and set out food for them.
In the summer, no biggy. I have a digital game camera set up near a corn feeder out my back window. I've witnessed 3 times now, a new drop-off shows up, neighbors start feeding it (or maybe not, but they stick around and stay healthy looking), within the first 3 days, I go from getting 30+ pictures a night, down to 2 or 3 pictures a night.
I must point out that I dont hunt over bait, the camera/feeder is more of a hobby, its way fun to drink a cup of coffee and watch the deer, bring in the cam and have pictures of 3 8pts in one night, and to find both sheds from them all under my feeder.
Anyway, 2 dogs were... taken care of. Now, it took almost 2 weeks after each to get back up to 30+ pictures a night. First time I thought it was coincidence that the deer disapeared when the dog showed up, and they came back when he was gone. The 2nd time, not so much. And I dont know what happened to the other dog, but again, I quit seeing him, deer came back.
So I dont really care much if they harm deer or not. They scare them off my measly 20 acres I have to hunt on, I cant just go all over in search of them. And it really makes me happy when one shows up about time deer season opens. I've got another one too now, a HUGE white dog. Showed up the opening week, I stopped getting pictures the 4th day, I did however see a grand total of 5 deer in 4 months of hunting almost every evening (and every morning on weekends). But 3 are in the freezer. This dog has gotten lucky many times, the first time I had a chance, was the first time I seen him, so I told him to leave, which he did. Everytime since then (4 sightings while hunting), he has been running. I havent gotten any pictures since the opening week, except for the occasional dog picture.
But what really makes dog hunting fun is that the neighbors feed them, so I can only assume they will call the cops on me. Its a challenge to hit the smaller ones and be SURE of a CLEAN, INSTANT, kill. Often times I pass the only good shot I get, because I dont want to kill dogs, I keep hopeing they will leave on thier own. It takes weeks, months, years to get another clean shure shot, by then they have angered me and screwed up my deer season so much that I dont really care if they yelp once or twice.
It also annoys me to no end to lay in bed at night and hear a dog barking for 2 hours straight.
IMO, they are no diffrent than a coyote or fox, they got the same shape? Probably you couldnt even tell the diffrence between a 20lb coyote skeleton and a 20lb dog. Likewise, cats are the same as bobcats, cept with the tail. So I think they should be in the same seasons as coyote and bobcat respectivly.
They arent feral, they are dogs and cats of my neighbors... or moreso the ones that 'feel sorry' for them and set out food for them.
In the summer, no biggy. I have a digital game camera set up near a corn feeder out my back window. I've witnessed 3 times now, a new drop-off shows up, neighbors start feeding it (or maybe not, but they stick around and stay healthy looking), within the first 3 days, I go from getting 30+ pictures a night, down to 2 or 3 pictures a night.
I must point out that I dont hunt over bait, the camera/feeder is more of a hobby, its way fun to drink a cup of coffee and watch the deer, bring in the cam and have pictures of 3 8pts in one night, and to find both sheds from them all under my feeder.
Anyway, 2 dogs were... taken care of. Now, it took almost 2 weeks after each to get back up to 30+ pictures a night. First time I thought it was coincidence that the deer disapeared when the dog showed up, and they came back when he was gone. The 2nd time, not so much. And I dont know what happened to the other dog, but again, I quit seeing him, deer came back.
So I dont really care much if they harm deer or not. They scare them off my measly 20 acres I have to hunt on, I cant just go all over in search of them. And it really makes me happy when one shows up about time deer season opens. I've got another one too now, a HUGE white dog. Showed up the opening week, I stopped getting pictures the 4th day, I did however see a grand total of 5 deer in 4 months of hunting almost every evening (and every morning on weekends). But 3 are in the freezer. This dog has gotten lucky many times, the first time I had a chance, was the first time I seen him, so I told him to leave, which he did. Everytime since then (4 sightings while hunting), he has been running. I havent gotten any pictures since the opening week, except for the occasional dog picture.
But what really makes dog hunting fun is that the neighbors feed them, so I can only assume they will call the cops on me. Its a challenge to hit the smaller ones and be SURE of a CLEAN, INSTANT, kill. Often times I pass the only good shot I get, because I dont want to kill dogs, I keep hopeing they will leave on thier own. It takes weeks, months, years to get another clean shure shot, by then they have angered me and screwed up my deer season so much that I dont really care if they yelp once or twice.
It also annoys me to no end to lay in bed at night and hear a dog barking for 2 hours straight.
IMO, they are no diffrent than a coyote or fox, they got the same shape? Probably you couldnt even tell the diffrence between a 20lb coyote skeleton and a 20lb dog. Likewise, cats are the same as bobcats, cept with the tail. So I think they should be in the same seasons as coyote and bobcat respectivly.
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