FF FFF powder

[halman]

is it ok to use FF in a bp revolver or is it a "just dont do it". would you use a little more or a little less grain load to equal FFF?

 

[Some_Mook]

a grain of FF will take slightly longer to fully combust than a grain of FFF. Using a grain size consistent with the amount of time a projectile is still in the barrel will generally give the best results - if the powder is still burning when the projectile is no longer in the barrel, then the excess powder has been wasted. Smaller grains are consumed faster / fully burned up than larger grains, but the speed of black powder actually burning is the same and the amount of potential energy contained with a powder charge of the same weight is the same regardless of the grain size.

Put another way, a charge of FFF will be fully consumed and all of it's energy released sooner than a similar charge of FF. A similar charge of FFFF will be fully consumed and release all of it's potential energy sooner than the FFF. The powder is chemically the same, the potential energy of the powder itself is the same, the difference is in how fast it is fully consumed, so it pays to match the powder to the job at hand. Notice that I specified 'weight', not volume. Smaller grain sizes means less air space between grains on a volume charge, so with smaller grains you would actually end up with more mass within a measured volume, meaning more potential energy to be released in a shorter amount of time

 

[Dusty_Traveler]

totally fine to use in your revolver. You would need to use more FF to get the power of FFF. In a wheel gun you might run out of real estate for that.

 

[Stantheman86]

is it ok to use FF in a bp revolver or is it a "just dont do it". would you use a little more or a little less grain load to equal FFF?

I've used 2F and 1F routinely in my big repro Colts like Dragoons and Walkers.

I had always thought 1F and 2F were easier on the guns when you're using 50-60gr charges that are what people use in .58 Rifles. So less wear and tear is always good

For smaller mid-frame revolvers it doesn't really matter what you use. I've used every grain from 1F to 3F in my .44 and .36 Navies and there really isn't a difference worth noting

If it's accurate, reliable and the power is satisfactory then go for it.

The 9" barrels of the Walker give the powder a little more time to burn but if some of it blows out unburned , oh well.

 

[Uncle Miltie]

You will likely obtain better accuracy with the finer powder..

 

[Campbell]

Yes, it’s fine. I load like Elmer Keith instructed in “Sixguns” : fill chamber with 2f about 1/8” from top, lubed felt wad over powder and ram home roundball. Shoot all day.

 

[FishDFly]

1/8 from the top, lubed felt wad, how you going to get the ball seated in the chamber so the cylinder rotates?

Wondering.

 

[Rifleman1776]

1/8 from the top, lubed felt wad, how you going to get the ball seated in the chamber so the cylinder rotates?

Wondering.

Me too, wondering. Sumptin is wrong with that version of Keiths suggestion.
2Fg might not fully combust in a revolver. Better performance can be expected with 3Fg. Even modern no-no pistols use finer powders for faster ignition.

 

[halman]

I've used 2F and 1F routinely in my big repro Colts like Dragoons and Walkers.

I had always thought 1F and 2F were easier on the guns when you're using 50-60gr charges that are what people use in .58 Rifles. So less wear and tear is always good

For smaller mid-frame revolvers it doesn't really matter what you use.

The 9" barrels of the Walker give the powder a little more time to burn but if some of it blows out unburned , oh well.

so probably not the best idea in the 5 1/2" barrel?

 

[Stantheman86]

so probably not the best idea in the 5 1/2" barrel?

It will definitely work and be completely fine, accuracy will probably be very good but you'll be blowing more unburned powder out the muzzle. Most if not all revolvers do this, the "muzzle flash" is powder burning outside the barrel

I used what I guess would be 2.5F in this Dragoon , I poured a half can of 3f into about a half can of 2f just to not have to carry 2 cans around....you can see the big flash of powder burning outside the barrel.....it looks cool but it's doing nothing for velocity, but they all do it to some extent it really doesn't matter, shoot with what you have and have fun

Historically, revolver powder was very fine and more like 4f so most of us are doing it wrong anyway

 

[Campbell]

1/8 from the top, lubed felt wad, how you going to get the ball seated in the chamber so the cylinder rotates?

Wondering

Me too, wondering. Sumptin is wrong with that version of Keiths suggestion.
2Fg might not fully combust in a revolver. Better performance can be expected with 3Fg. Even modern no-no pistols use finer powders for faster ignition

You compress it. Obviously, if it won’t compress all the way you leave a bit more space. Use 3f if you prefer.

 

[Rhyno]

It will definitely work and be completely fine, accuracy will probably be very good but you'll be blowing more unburned powder out the muzzle. Most if not all revolvers do this, the "muzzle flash" is powder burning outside the barrel

I used what I guess would be 2.5F in this Dragoon , I poured a half can of 3f into about a half can of 2f just to not have to carry 2 cans around....you can see the big flash of powder burning outside the barrel.....it looks cool but it's doing nothing for velocity, but they all do it to some extent it really doesn't matter, shoot with what you have and have fun

Historically, revolver powder was very fine and more like 4f so most of us are doing it wrong anyway

View attachment 191569

View attachment 191570

Nice videos. Here’s the flame from FFFg in a Kentucky pistol.

 

[springfield art]

Interesting thread! There's a lot of knowledgeable pistol shooters on this site!

 

[Old-Duckman]

Agreed, Some_Mook’s post was a well stated education/lesson for me. Others were equally interesting.

 

[RIDE-RED350R]

Apologies for reviving an older thread. Been using the search and not having much luck.

I'm about to try 3F black in my 50cal rifles for the first time based on good results I've seen reported here.

Rifles are TC Renegade percussion (26"), TC Hawken percussion (28") and TC PA Hunter flintlock (original half octogon 32" 1:66).

I just got the flint PA Hunter last year and it's my first flinter and I've decided to take it afield for our upcoming ML season.

My question is: does barrel length play any significant role in determining the best powder between 2F and 3F? I've always used 2F as that's what my TC literature recommended for 50cal. Didn't have the Internet back in those days. Basically, I'm wondering if the longer 32" barrel of the PA Hunter would be best suited to the slower burning 2F? I will likely try both and see what results I get on paper for groups as well as running them over my chronograph.

Just curious to know if anyone here has some knowledge on this and would be willing to share.

I can create a new thread if reviving this one is in bad form.

Thanks

 

[Gun Tramp]

Not bad form at all but this is the Handguns section of the Firearms forum.

 

[chorizo]

a grain of FF will take slightly longer to fully combust than a grain of FFF. Using a grain size consistent with the amount of time a projectile is still in the barrel will generally give the best results - if the powder is still burning when the projectile is no longer in the barrel, then the excess powder has been wasted. Smaller grains are consumed faster / fully burned up than larger grains, but the speed of black powder actually burning is the same and the amount of potential energy contained with a powder charge of the same weight is the same regardless of the grain size.

Put another way, a charge of FFF will be fully consumed and all of it's energy released sooner than a similar charge of FF. A similar charge of FFFF will be fully consumed and release all of it's potential energy sooner than the FFF. The powder is chemically the same, the potential energy of the powder itself is the same, the difference is in how fast it is fully consumed, so it pays to match the powder to the job at hand. Notice that I specified 'weight', not volume. Smaller grain sizes means less air space between grains on a volume charge, so with smaller grains you would actually end up with more mass within a measured volume, meaning more potential energy to be released in a shorter amount of time

An excellent explanation of how various grinds (granulation) of black powder burns and the resulting pressure/energy release.

 

[Kansas Jake]

I’ve used both ffg and fffg and those barrel length won’t make much difference in which granulation to use. I’ve used both in barrels about those lengths.

 

[RIDE-RED350R]

Not bad form at all but this is the Handguns section of the Firearms forum.

Oops! I didn't notice the subforum section in my search results. Sorry about that

 

[Crow Choker]

If ya live in snow country in the winter, shooting a black powder firearm no matter the type over clean snow is a good way to see how much unburned powder is being wasted. Will show up very well. I've done so with my TC 45 cap rifle and a host of revolvers, esp a Walker and brace of Dragoons.