I have to admit, I'm guilty of the same crime.
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FFFFFFFFFpowder????? I just have to laugh
- Thread starter Brokennock
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Trapper Scott
45 Cal.
Everybody is guilty. On some things, I will research the heck out of it, but impatience gets the better of everyone sooner or later and we fire from the hip, hoping for a quick answer to our woes and that's another reason I try to practice patience and kindness.
I, too, have begun to discipline myself to read all the responses. I've found too many responses that were better than my response would have been.
user 48679
54 Cal.
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My usual response is "yes, dear" 
Okay, but Brokennock, you never said- is FFFFFFFFFg necessary, or can I get by with FFFFFFFFg?
Jay
Jay
now that I think about it, I too am guilty of it.
Is FFFFFFFFFg the correct and preferred product label?
Can it just read 9F or 9Fg? I am guessing the ATF would required the “g” for those of us that still read.
Can it just read 9F or 9Fg? I am guessing the ATF would required the “g” for those of us that still read.
I am late to this thread and don't want to derail it, but would like to insert a fact based on the title. In the late 70's Mountain State Muzzleloading sold 2 or 4oz plastic bottles of FFFFFFFg (7Fg) priming powder in their store, and maybe mail order too. I never used it, but the guy who started me in muzzleloading did. He swore by it in his TC Hawken flinter. The stuff looked like black talcum powder. I had just finished my CVA Mt. Rifle kit and was learning to get it to reliably shoot do to operator problems. By the time I progressed to flint I never saw that superfine grade again.
MSM, or what is left of it, is now Cain's Outdoor and still has a good bit of NOS from their heyday. I've bought some odd ball threaded nipples from them not so long ago. My Norton locks me out of their website, but lets me into their fb page: Cain's Outdoor Inc.
MSM, or what is left of it, is now Cain's Outdoor and still has a good bit of NOS from their heyday. I've bought some odd ball threaded nipples from them not so long ago. My Norton locks me out of their website, but lets me into their fb page: Cain's Outdoor Inc.
TDM
Cannon
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That's a new one on me! Thanks.
Russ T Frizzen
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Ah, yes. The eternal questions.
Sometimes a “new guy” doesn’t know enough about the subject to ask a good question. Sometimes they have been given information and don’t understand enough yet to know that the person who told them was clueless on the subject themselves but acting knowledgeable.
Here’s a case in point. It’s a little long-winded, but pertinent and gives some insight as to why I think we should be patient. Sharing knowledge is what we do, isn’t it?
In the 70’s in New Hampshire, the state was trying out their brand new Muzzleloading Hunting Season. Quite a lot of people bought TC and
CVA rifles to take advantage of the extra hunting opportunities, also getting what accessories and materials were considered necessary by the clerk in the Sporting Goods section of the store that sold them the gun. They also got a thumbnail description of the loading and cleaning processes from the same store-designated ”expert” and that’s the way most of them started.
One exerienced and reasonably knowledgeable muzzleloading shooter ran across a gentleman in a small clearing near the edge of the woods one day. The gent was snapping percussion caps on. CVA “Kentucky Rifle” trying to get it to fire. It would not. Turned out that this was the first time he had had the time and chance to fire it since his son had given it to him for his birthday, and he went to the store where the rifle was purchased and got as much information as he could from the store clerk who had sold it. He was following those directions.
On investigation by the experienced guy, the gent’s rifle wouldn’t fire because the breech was plugged with grease from the factory. He had
never cleaned it. Didn’t know he should. Ignorance may have saved his life, or perhaps his vision or the use of one of his hands. The gentleman
had no idea of how to pull a charge or any of the tools necessary to do so. Fortunately, the other man had a ball puller and a patch worm that would fit the ramrod in his hunting pouch. He did that operation,
What he found was roughly 200 - 250 grains of FFFFg loaded behind a patched round ball in a 15/16” octagon barrel with a drum and nipple —-
plus a half ounce or so of black grease. The gentleman was loading from a brass powder flask with a 60-grain spout and had been told to use
“… 4 or 5 of those… “ and also that ”You can’t over charge a muzzle loader! What you don’t need just gets blown out the muzzle when you shoot.”
The experienced ML shooter cleaned the CVA, explaining each step as he did it. Then he whittled a piece of wild cane into a field-expedient powder measure for 50 grains, and swapped some of his own FFg for the 4F in the gentleman’s powder flask, enough to povide several loads. He talked the gent through the loading process and watched as he fired his first round at a mark, swabbed with a damp patch and then reloaded. He took the gent’s 4F in a leather poke.
A couple days later, he went to Bob Valade who was then the NMLRA State Representative and told the story, finishing it with “We’ve gotta do something, Bob, before somebody gets hurt!” Bob called the state
Fish & Game and talked to some folks he knew there. They said they were aware of the problem but didn’t have anybody who knew enough about the ML sport to do anything about it. An agreement was struck
in which Bob and other volunteers would provide knowledgable instructors, the state would pay for printing and distribution of information, and Bob’s home ML Club, the Pennichuck Black Powder Shooters, would host ML Hunter Safety classes. They did and the
response was terrific.
The immediate result was a series of posters in sporting goods departments and gun shops announcing the free classes, with contact information on tear-off sheets and phone numbers for questions, a tri-fold pamphlet “Welcome To Muzzleloading” that contained basic information on loading, cleaning, safety, and different ignition systems and was available wherever guns, gear, powder, or other ML materials were sold.
The pamphlet was a single sheet, double sided, and was designed to be folded and tucked in the shooter’s pocket or pouch for reference.
The first classes were held in New Hampshire, but were attended also by reps from clubs all over New England, Eastern NY, and even from some clubs in Pennsylvania and New Jersey. They were “train the trainers” classes, and the attendees returned home to spread the word and the materials. The Muzzleloading Hunter Safety Classes were born.
Bob sent copies of the pamphlets, the instructional materials and
a series of 35mm slides all to the NMLRA, who promptly adopted them,
modified some of the presentation to add “NMLRA” to the title, deleted manufacturers recommended loads from the pamphlet, and published
the course nationwide.
Here’s a case in point. It’s a little long-winded, but pertinent and gives some insight as to why I think we should be patient. Sharing knowledge is what we do, isn’t it?
In the 70’s in New Hampshire, the state was trying out their brand new Muzzleloading Hunting Season. Quite a lot of people bought TC and
CVA rifles to take advantage of the extra hunting opportunities, also getting what accessories and materials were considered necessary by the clerk in the Sporting Goods section of the store that sold them the gun. They also got a thumbnail description of the loading and cleaning processes from the same store-designated ”expert” and that’s the way most of them started.
One exerienced and reasonably knowledgeable muzzleloading shooter ran across a gentleman in a small clearing near the edge of the woods one day. The gent was snapping percussion caps on. CVA “Kentucky Rifle” trying to get it to fire. It would not. Turned out that this was the first time he had had the time and chance to fire it since his son had given it to him for his birthday, and he went to the store where the rifle was purchased and got as much information as he could from the store clerk who had sold it. He was following those directions.
On investigation by the experienced guy, the gent’s rifle wouldn’t fire because the breech was plugged with grease from the factory. He had
never cleaned it. Didn’t know he should. Ignorance may have saved his life, or perhaps his vision or the use of one of his hands. The gentleman
had no idea of how to pull a charge or any of the tools necessary to do so. Fortunately, the other man had a ball puller and a patch worm that would fit the ramrod in his hunting pouch. He did that operation,
What he found was roughly 200 - 250 grains of FFFFg loaded behind a patched round ball in a 15/16” octagon barrel with a drum and nipple —-
plus a half ounce or so of black grease. The gentleman was loading from a brass powder flask with a 60-grain spout and had been told to use
“… 4 or 5 of those… “ and also that ”You can’t over charge a muzzle loader! What you don’t need just gets blown out the muzzle when you shoot.”
The experienced ML shooter cleaned the CVA, explaining each step as he did it. Then he whittled a piece of wild cane into a field-expedient powder measure for 50 grains, and swapped some of his own FFg for the 4F in the gentleman’s powder flask, enough to povide several loads. He talked the gent through the loading process and watched as he fired his first round at a mark, swabbed with a damp patch and then reloaded. He took the gent’s 4F in a leather poke.
A couple days later, he went to Bob Valade who was then the NMLRA State Representative and told the story, finishing it with “We’ve gotta do something, Bob, before somebody gets hurt!” Bob called the state
Fish & Game and talked to some folks he knew there. They said they were aware of the problem but didn’t have anybody who knew enough about the ML sport to do anything about it. An agreement was struck
in which Bob and other volunteers would provide knowledgable instructors, the state would pay for printing and distribution of information, and Bob’s home ML Club, the Pennichuck Black Powder Shooters, would host ML Hunter Safety classes. They did and the
response was terrific.
The immediate result was a series of posters in sporting goods departments and gun shops announcing the free classes, with contact information on tear-off sheets and phone numbers for questions, a tri-fold pamphlet “Welcome To Muzzleloading” that contained basic information on loading, cleaning, safety, and different ignition systems and was available wherever guns, gear, powder, or other ML materials were sold.
The pamphlet was a single sheet, double sided, and was designed to be folded and tucked in the shooter’s pocket or pouch for reference.
The first classes were held in New Hampshire, but were attended also by reps from clubs all over New England, Eastern NY, and even from some clubs in Pennsylvania and New Jersey. They were “train the trainers” classes, and the attendees returned home to spread the word and the materials. The Muzzleloading Hunter Safety Classes were born.
Bob sent copies of the pamphlets, the instructional materials and
a series of 35mm slides all to the NMLRA, who promptly adopted them,
modified some of the presentation to add “NMLRA” to the title, deleted manufacturers recommended loads from the pamphlet, and published
the course nationwide.
Looks to me same old manure with people on here spelling and where to put marks at that why most of the first people got off this sight . Why dont you smart people start your own group let muzzleloaders people talk hey
I don’t mind at all when new members ask a frequently asked question. When they do this, I read all the responses and many times I see a new response to a question that I hadn’t considered. Basically that’s how we all learn. The search function on this forum ( which I have been directed to a few times) doesn’t work well. I’ve been here for a while now, I’ve learned a lot and continue to do so.
Brokennock
Cannon
Ya know,,,, while I still worked in healthcare, I read an article that proposed that an inability to understand sarcasm is an early sign of alzheimers and/or dementia......
Now THAT is an excellent way of putting it.
I have been down that road MANY a time; I go seeking information and end up along the way learning so much more. Sometimes I find something I never heard about and get sidetracked from my original quest.
Also, buy browsing the many previously answered questions I get a feel for just who to take advice from and who not, and perhaps even 'how to form my question' for the best response.
But then, I am from the (now old) UNIX era; go into one of those forums and start a new thread asking "How do I write a Print Driver?" And you will get just one, short, sweet answer:
RTFM
And if you respond with "What is RTFM?" you will be guided to the Forum Rules. There you will see that it requests you make an effort to 'search' for your question as you will "most likely find it has been asked before" and if you still can't find your specific answer then begin a new thread while referencing the other(s) to show you made an effort.
However, they are just a bunch of Tech Heads and have No Clue how to load a muzzleloader let alone get a stuck ball out.
Brokennock
Cannon
Brokennock
Cannon
Because it isn't some, "same old manure."
Why should people have to read a reply two or three times to try ro figure out what someone is trying to say? Maybe someone who can't understand the most basic ideas of punctuation (those "marks) shouldn't be playing with an explosive like black powder and sharp things like knives and flints, much less something that combines explosives and projectiles (you can look up projectile here, https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...YQFnoECE8QAQ&usg=AOvVaw0H6mgqcU8v-3YhgEF9Y6fT ).
Please stick with crayons and play-doh.
Touching off a can of 4fg will cause a mushroom cloud and rain to happen!Regards the multiple f rating thing, it would not be an issue if some dang fool had not used phrases like " excessive pressure" and or " dangerous".
Now every one near poops themselves in the store if they see a can of 3f or 4f! If they touch a can of 4f violent convulsions start, cold sweats and mild fever.
I may even consider counseling sessions for victims!
Its gotten so bad that 4f is slowing morphing into pan powder by name.
Are you CARAZY!!!!
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It'll be like the 4th of July all over again.Touching off a can of 4fg will cause a mushroom cloud and rain to happen!
Are you CARAZY!!!!
Rock Home Isle
54 Cal.
Or several 4th of Julys all at once…
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