FFFFg in a Bess?

[Brewer]

Hi All,
Well, after about ten evenings of filing, sanding, staining and oiling, my Pedersoli Bess kit is finally complete. The only thing I messed up was to oversand the wrist area, and I had to use a little wood filler to fill the gap between the stock and wrist inlay (oops). The stock has some really nice figure, with a lot of "flaming" in the forearm. It's still tacky from all the walnut stain I've been rubbing into it, but I'm determined to shoot it this weekend.

My question is this: I only have a little 2F powder left, but I have a lot of 4F. Would it be safe to fire a few loads (blanks and patched .715 round balls) with a main charge of 4F?

Thanks,
Brewer

 

NO!!!!!

 

[Stumpkiller]

You should be able to get away with 50 gr of FFFFg as a main charge behind a patched ball just to make a bang and get the ball to the target. For a "blank" you don't need near as much - maybe half that (as long as it fills the breech up past the vent hole). It's not like it is magically more powerful than the other granulations. It all comes out of the same mixer. You just get more in less volume, so the measures read low. It probably does ignite faster, so the force curve is steeper in the first fractional seconds. It would not be a good idea to swap like volumes for the larger granulations.

But the more I think about it, the more I like Mike's answer. Why risk a nice gun and your eyes and nose?

 

[roundball]

Another alternative would be to use a "layered" duplex load something like 1/3 FFFFg first and 2/3 FFg poured on top of it, or half & half, etc

 

[musketman]

FFFFg as a main charge will result in excess pressure...

As a rule of musket-thumb in large bore guns, the more F's in the powder (Fg, F1/2g, FFg, FFFg, FFFFg) the higher the pressure in a same volume charge...

So, 70 grains of FFg will have less pressure than 70 grains of FFFg and FFFFg, even though they are all 70 grains in volume...

The finer the powder, the faster it reaches it's pressure spike...

Fg is ideal for larger muskets, but it's dirty burning...

If you "MUST" use FFFFg, then reduce the load as Stumpkiller suggested, this will not over pressurize the system...

 

[Kenney Moore]

NO!!!!!

I like this answer the best due to the reasons given by MM. :nono:
Use the FFFFG for prime for your lock to get rid of it.
It's your life you gambling with. It's better to air on the side of caution instead of wishing you had!! :hmm:

 

[robinghewitt]

Personally I'd just pack it in tight, compressed BP is rocket fuel regardless of the granulation :results:

 

[iainofulva]

Would it be safe to fire a few loads (blanks and patched .715 round balls) with a main charge of 4F?

I am unable to answer this question.. will let the pros handle that... But I did want to share a quick story.

Last year at Historic Brattonsville, SC, we (the militia) were all lined up pretty as you please in the field and I'm going to town with my friend's Bess. I'm reloading like a crazed maniac, trying to look less like I'm having fun and more like I'm scared out of my mind (which I'm certain made for an interesting facial expression). I'd been shooting blanks of like 65 or 70g FFFg all day.

On one reload, I remember thinking to myself the paper cartridge didn't feel quite right, but shrugged it off since I was a complete NOOBIE at that event. I took aim at some random tree behind the Brits and ka-WOOOOOOSHHHHH!!!!!! Darn near knocked me on my butt!

My buddy looked at me and smiled. He said "Oops.. that musta been a 4f load!" then laughed.

I couldn't imagine shooting a live round with that amount of 4f.

My two cents. Thanks for looking. We now return to your regularly schedule programming.


eace:

 

[Leonredbeard]

Robin,
The experience I have had does not suggest packing black powder into a solid mass slows down its burn rate. One time I took my nine year old nephew to the range to shoot my .54 flint pistol. I showed him how to load it and invited him to tamp the patched ball on the powder. He did so rather conservatively, but I believe it was firmly on the powder because the ball patch combo loads easily on the clean barrel. He fired the shot with the right amount of 'pow' and recoil. On ramming the second ball he really hammered it with the rod. On pulling the trigger the gun 'cracked' and recoiled about twice as far as the first shot. I believe packing black powder gives more bang not less.
God bless.
volatpluvia

 

[cmetucker]

anything over 15 to 20 grains would be a NO to me, particularly over a ball.

BP produced by a given manufacturer (eg. GOEX) will have a given (ambient environmental factors being equal) burn rate that will be the same (be it Fg or FFFFg). However the surface to volume ratio changes are not linear as the particle of BP gets smaller. It is more of an exponetial change. Meaning a particle of BP, 2x smaller, may have 20x more surface area. BP burns at the surface, not at the center of the grain. Therefore you could have 20 grains FFFFg that would burn at the moment of ignition like 200 grains of FFg.

Safety first; not in my arms or next to my face!

 

[Claude Mathis]

Would it be safe to fire a few loads (blanks and patched .715 round balls) with a main charge of 4F?

It might be safe, but why risk it?

There's no point in trying to prove the gun manufacturers wrong when they all recommend using 4F only for priming.

You have nothing to gain, but risk much. :imo:

 

[Zonie]

There's no point in trying to prove the gun manufacturers wrong when they all recommend using 4F only for priming.

Well, they also say you can use 4Fg in the little guns like the .32 cal Remington revolver and other .32 cal pistols, but one should notice that the charges in these guns are very small .

Keep the 4Fg in the pan. :m2c:

 

[Claude Mathis]

There's no point in trying to prove the gun manufacturers wrong when they all recommend using 4F only for priming.

Well, they also say you can use 4Fg in the little guns like the .32 cal Remington revolver and other .32 cal pistols,...

I meant to say in "real" calibers. :crackup:

 

[Zonie]

Ouch! :cry:

 

[Brewer]

Thanks for the responses, everyone!
Well, you've all certainly confirmed my suspicions that it wouldn't be the safest of procedures. As luck would have it, I was able to get a couple of pounds of Goex FFg for the inaugural firing of the new Bess. The musket did well and the lock is sure-fire, even with FFg in the pan (splendid!).

I've discovered a way to split wood that is a little less "ordinary" than the traditional approach: 90 grains of FFg under a .715 round ball splits logs just dandy-like with a center hit! :redthumb:

Thanks again,
Brewer

 

[musketman]

I've discovered a way to split wood that is a little less "ordinary" than the traditional approach: 90 grains of FFg under a .715 round ball splits logs just dandy-like with a center hit! :redthumb:

I done this many times to show the raw power of the bess, that large ball mauls through logs like a wedge...

 

[Keith]

I've discovered a way to split wood that is a little less "ordinary" than the traditional approach: 90 grains of FFg under a .715 round ball splits logs just dandy-like with a center hit! :redthumb:

I done this many times to show the raw power of the bess, that large ball mauls through logs like a wedge...

And all this time I used an axe? :redface: :crackup:

Brewer, We are expecting a full range report soon.