FFg or FFFg for .50 cal?

[Staggerwing]

I am in the final stages of finishing my first build, a .50 cal percussion long rifle. I have read several books along the way and have now shifted my focus to actually shooting the rifle. I read in a couple books that FFFg is typically used for rifles .45 and less and FFg is used for .50 and higher. One book stated the pressures at the breech are too high to use FFFg in the higher calibers.
So I go to the local store and begin purchasing balls, patches, powder, etc.. They went in the back to get my powder and he brought out FFFg. I reminded him I had a .50 and should I not use FFg and he said, no, I wanted the FFFg.
So I'm asking for advice before I do something stupid. Can I use FFFg in my .50 percussion rifle or should I find some FFg?
Thanks in advance for your input.

 

[LRB]

You might want to try both, and see what the gun likes best. FFFg is not going to cause dangerous pressures, and it will shoot cleaner, but you would need to try both to see which gives the better accuracy, if that is a concern.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Right good suggestion. My .54 likes 70 grains of 3Fg, but I know a fellow who's .45 for some reason really likes 2 Fg.

LD

 

[Staggerwing]

Thank you, Wick. My main concern is safety. Second is accuracy so I will try both. I have a couple different patch sizes and ball sizes to try. It just alarmed me a bit when I read in a book that the pressures were too high with 3F in the larger calibers.
I didn't want to doubt the gentleman at the shop but didn't know him either so, being new to this I wanted to ask.

 

[Rifleman1776]

The usual thinking and practice for a long time was what you read. Over .45 cal. use only 2Fg.
But, common sense finally prevailed. Use what you like regardless of caliber. Although the coarser grades can be difficult in real small calibers, like .32,.36, etc.
If you have a load you like in a big bore using 2Fg. and change to 3Fg., do drop the charge for testing as it will likely produce higher pressures. In the end, it is your choice.

 

[nchawkeye]

What you are hearing is a left over wives tale from years ago...I shoot 80grs FFF Goex in my .54 as a deer load...I also use FFF in my .40 and for priming in both...

FFF burns cleaner and in my guns shoots just as accurately as FF...

 

[biliff]

Like everybody else said, its more of a suggestion than a hard and fast rule.

 

[BrownBear]

All but a couple of my 50's can't tell the difference accuracy-wise with "deer" loads of 70 grains and more(both cap and flint). The two that demand one or the other both want 3f. I shoot a lot of reduced loads (30-50 grains) and those are certainly cleaner and more accurate with the 3f.

I've settled on 3f in all of them, since it lets me use the same horn for main charge and prime in the flinters.

Not much science to any of that, but a whole lot of convenience.

 

[Herb]

Lyman's Black Powder Handbook & Loading Manual, 2nd edition, 2001, list loads for Goex 2F and 3F in many calibers with roundballs, most loads maximum at 120 grains except for .58 at 140 grains and .32 and .36 calibers at 70 grains. In .50 caliber and a 32" barrel, .490 balls and .015 patches and 120 grains of Goex 2F gave 1991 fps at 11,500 psi. 120 grains of Goex 3F gave 2045 fps at 16,800 psi. Higher psi, yes, but within their safety limits. They list several 120 grain loads of Goex 3F with 350 to 385 grain cast bullets at over 20,000 psi and loads with other powders up to 26,400 psi in .50 caliber. Goex 3F is a good powder in my .50 and .54 rifles, and common loads are 80 grains. I developed loads for a .58 Hawken that the owner chose to use 130 grains of Goex 3F rather than 2F to kill a record class bull elk here in Utah.

 

[cynthialee]

I use 3f in all my rifled firearms and 2F in my smoothbores.
Seems to be just the ticket.
But the largest bore I have for a rifle is .54 so I couldn't comment on larger bore rifles.

 

[Vaino]

In my .50 cal. TC Hawken, I load 3f for a PRB and 2f for a heavy conical. Both are very accurate.....Fred

 

[nkbj]

I split the difference and shoot Jacks battle.

 

[galamb]

In my neck of the woods powder (real black) is expensive and difficult to come by.

To keep things simple I feed everything (40 thru 54 cal) FFF.

I previously used 2F (goex) and R/S (pyrodex) in my 50 and 54. After reworking the load with FFF didn't notice enough of a difference to worry about.

It depends how accurate you want to be. Could I tighten the group on my 50 if I shot FF, maybe. But since I'm only looking for a sub 2" group at 50 yards, I can probably shoot just about anything on the market and get that.

So answer YOUR "accuracy" question first. If you want a single ragged hole you are going to have to go through a lot of combinations of powder/balls/patches/lubes.

If you just want reasonably accurate, then load what you like.

 

[William O.]

As Wick pointed out, FFFg is perfectly safe in your .50 and I would start with it to work up an accurate load. At some point you may want to try FFg, especially if accuracy just isn't very good. I have a .54 with a 1:48 twist rate that hands down will not shoot a good group using 3f (FFFg) but is wonderful using 85 grains of 2f (FFg). I tried using 2f in a 50 caliber, fast twist (1:32 IIRC) barrel with no good results but 95 grains of 3f would deliver one bulls-eye after another. Some folks find no difference between the two in their rifles, others find just the opposite. For now start with the 3f and have a good time.

 

[Staggerwing]

Thanks, all, for your comments. Gives me peace of mind. I will see how the accuracy is with what I have and go from there. I need to get some range time in anyways so experimenting will be good!

 

[Alden]

In a .50 rifle you are sorta on the threshold of the rule of thumb, and that's all it is. I'd say you are safe either way. I would not be averse to using relatively light loads of FFg in a shorter .50 rifle. Longer .50 guns I'd limit it to PRB, otherwise I'd gravitate towards FFFg. Just don't overcharge the gun and you'll be fine, but, you'll want to play with some FFg at some point I'm sure so get a can of that too.

Oh, and FFFFg for when u get a flintlock...

 

[Baby Huey]

My position is that black powder shooting is supposed to be enjoyable. A large part of that enjoyment involves experimentation with various powders, ball diameters, patch thicknesses, patch lubes,etc. for each gun which should be treated as unique. In addition, each black powder gun tends to evolve as the barrel wears and different cleaning methods are employed.

My GPR will tend to shred patches with 70 grains of FFF but is fine with FF. Another GPR may like even a greater charge of FFF.

There is nothing wrong with interchanging FF and FFF in a 50 cal. Just find the best combination that works for you.

 

[kopfjaeger]

Years ago I use to use 3Fg only in my .32, .36, and .40 caliber flintlocks. And I'd use 2Fg in my .50 a.58 caliber flintlocks.

But after a while I got tired of buying 2Fg, 3Fg, and 4FG ( for priming ). So now I shoot 3Fg out of all my flintlocks and have had no problems.

Sometimes I'll use 4Fg for priming, but most of the time I just use 3Fg for the priming also and have not noticed much difference.

 

[Alden]

...I would not be averse to using relatively light loads of FFg in a shorter .50 rifle. Longer .50 guns I'd limit it to PRB, otherwise I'd gravitate towards FFFg...

Hey, I wrote that backwards!

 

[jferguson]

I didn't want to doubt the gentleman at the shop but didn't know him either so, being new to this I wanted to ask.

Yeah, it's good you didn't trust that guy in the store, since you don't know him anywhere near as good as you know us here on the internet! :haha: