FFg or FFFg

[jimmy82]

I have noticed that most people that post info about loads are using FFFg. It has been a while and I'm not sure exactly where I saw or heard this but generally as caliber decreases you want use a finer powder, .45 cal being capable of accurate loads with both FFg and FFFg. Anything bigger you want to use FFg, and anything smaller you want to use FFFg. Is this assessment correct? I am sure that some of it comes to preference but I bet there are some hard facts out there to support some theories.

Are there noticeable differences in consistency and accuracy with a different type? Or have people just experimented and found what works best for their gun?

 

[brain]

somewhere i saw you can 3f up to .50, because i have some.
so far i'm not overly impressed with it, though i did change all kinds of things on the gun since teh last i was in to it.
next it goes out, it's going with 2f.

 

[brubincam]

I use 3f in my 50's 58 & 12 ga when I still had it.. :thumbsup:

 

[Slake]

I like Goex black powder and buy whatever is easy to get. I regularly shoot both and I think I prefer the ff but don't see a huge difference. I think the fff tends to be a wee bit hotter so you can get away with a bit less for the same results

 

[biliff]

I started using FFFg in my .54 and .58 flintlocks on the range, trail walks, etc..Seems to foul less making extended shooting sessions easier and you use less of it. Still use the FFg when I need a hunting load.

 

[roundball]

I have noticed that most people that post info about loads are using FFFg. It has been a while and I'm not sure exactly where I saw or heard this but generally as caliber decreases you want use a finer powder, .45 cal being capable of accurate loads with both FFg and FFFg. Anything bigger you want to use FFg, and anything smaller you want to use FFFg. Is this assessment correct? I am sure that some of it comes to preference but I bet there are some hard facts out there to support some theories.

Are there noticeable differences in consistency and accuracy with a different type? Or have people just experimented and found what works best for their gun?

Actually those kind of "limitations" are old wives tales...understandable and well intentioned but not really valid...blackpowder is all the same[url] powder...in[/url] fact when a run of BP is made, all the different granulations are screened out of the same production run. The finer granulations of BP burn faster and leave less fouling which makes 3F attractive to some...me for sure.

And the faster burn time runs up the pressure curve faster too, so there's a proven rule of thumb that when substituting 3F for a 2F powder charge, reducing it 10-15% will keep pressures in the same ballpark...ie: if you were going to use 100grns 2F, then 85grns of 3F could be substituted and pressures would be roughly equivalent.

I've used 3F in .40/.45/.50/.54/.62cals with the reduction for a few years now and it's outstanding in all calibers...and I've had a couple of cases where 3F was actually more accurate than 2F.

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

I use only 3Fg Goex real black. Works great in the revolvers and since my rifle barrel is only 28 inches long, I get a more thorough burn with less crud/residue left in the bore. This means I can clean less and shoot more before I have to clean, if I'm just plinking. At a match, I clean every two to three shots, for the tighter groups that this method provides.

70 grains of 3Fg works well with either a PRB or a 370 grain Maxi-Ball.

Every gun has it's own "sweet-spot", and only experimentation with yours will allow you to find it. Some guns have two sweet-spots...one for reduced target loads and another for a very accurate hunting load. May you have fun finding yours!

All the best,

Dave

 

[paulvallandigham]

Jimmy: With any gun, try both 3F and 2F powders and see what seems to work the best. I found that when I began using fillers, and then an OP wad instead of fillers in my rifles, using FFg powder, I got much better compression, and the residue was much less- as little as I normally expect when shooting FFFg powder in the same gun, without the wad or filler. The downside of FFFg is that it does burn hotter, and will burn a cloth patch with the same volume of powder when FFg will not do so. Using the OP wad took care of the problems of residue size, and amount, as well as the burned and torn patches.

Some guns will just prefer one powder over the other. I had a friend who worked for a couple of weeks shooting FFg powder in his new .62 cal. rifle, and could not get a decent group. Then he used some FFFg simply because he picked up the wrong powder horn when heading out to the range, and BINGO! the gun started shooting good groups. He was astounded, and embarrassed, because he was one of those guys that kept preaching the old " rule " about using only FFg powder in those large caliber rifles. He had the targets he shot to show he was wrong, and actually, when he found out that the rest of were not laughing at him, or giving him a hard time, but were rather very interested in knowing that each rifle is different, he was very proud to admit he had been wrong!

So, try both powders in your guns. ( On the other end of the picture, I know one very good shooter who could not get his .36 rifle to work well until he accidently brought the wrong powder horn to the range and tried some FFg powder in the gun. Again, instant small groups! Who would have figured? )

Best wishes.

 

[jimmy82]

Very interesting food for thought. I will definitely have to experiment some. Thanks for the informative posts. :hatsoff:

 

[Headhunter]

I use FFFG Goex for EVERYTHING. 45 to 58. My 12 Ga Shotgun likes 1-F Goex.

HH

 

The best argument for using fffg for everything [within reason] is that, for flinters anyway, you only have to buy one type powder for loads and priming--carry just one horn as did our ancestors. Some argue that fffg is cleaner, but I have not noticed a big difference [not enough to matter]. Our ancestors, however, used coarser powder, more like fg or ffg. The old rule of thumb was based on the fact that pressures spike up with smaller granulations of powder and that combined with heavier projectiles could lead to stress on the barrel--thus decreasing f #s for larger calibers. I learned old school, and have always used ffg for .54 and above. In modern quality barrels from the likes of Getz, Rice, GM, etc. this should not be a problem, but I have ffg to use up! I have always used fffg for .50 and below. The recent blow-up of an import India-made musket which injured two people is a reminder that not all barrels are made alike and that caution should be always practiced with gun loads of any kind. Our ancestors typically did not overload-partly to conserve powder, but also because it is unneccesary. I just read a period account last night in which it was said that 25 lbs of powder gave ~2500 rifle loads--that is ~100 shots per pound, which equates to ~70 gr loads [or less allowing for priming]. Other accounts mention even lower loads. Keeping loads reasonable allows one to use fffg in any modern well-made barrel. Others mileage may vary--I once knew a fellow who red-lined his modern cartridge reloads, always pushing the envelope in both handguns and rifles--always seeking the maximum power [vel+energy]. Most of his loads scared me...the other extreme is that 18th cent reports that Indians often way underloaded their rifles/guns and men reported that their bullets would not penetrate very far--even bounce off at times! I was shocked when I first heard of folks using fffg in .62s, but it is so commonplace now as not to attract notice...by the younger crowd, anyhow--some of us old timers still cringe a little every time we see it...

 

[tg]

A 50/50 mix of 2f and 3f often makes a nice load for the larger bores, I tried it for a while in a NW .62 it worked very well, just got tired of keeping another horn/can around so went back to 3f when I used it up.You can put equall parts in a quaker oats box and shake and roll it to mix, it does not seperate to any extent when traveling.