files for dumbies

[mattybock]

I bought my first ever set of screw drivers the other day. :grin:

Machinst drivers with long heads and square shanks. Pretty ones, too. See through green handles! :blah:

According to what I have read up on, these screw driver is the single most basic tool of the modern gunsmith and now I have a yearning to go out and buy some files.

A quick look on wikipedia lists some types of files and there supposed uses. At this time I realize something -
THERE'S A LOT OF KINDS OF FILES!

And my question is; what types of kinds should I look for? Are they are okay for the same material to be worked on? (I'm guessing not) Does brand name matter? and - what do you use for your purposes?...

whatever they may be. (ear pickin', toe nail cleanin', cat widdling, I don't judge)

 

[sean30ber]

With so many types you need to tell us what your going to use them on. Soft metal, Steel, Wood. Crafts, gun building ETC. You kind of left it open. You can spend a bit of money on good files. You can buy cheep junk that wont last. You can ruin a good file fast. Whats your poison?

 

[Jim Blair]

There's no economy in buying cheap Chinese or Indian made files and good files do cost a bit.Don't throw them loose in a drawer or toolbox where they beat against each other or other tools.I prefer Nicholson but that's just an old mechanics preference.

Files come in all sizes,cuts,and shapes for different purposes.It's bewildering if you don't use files a lot and most of them are for specialized uses.You can do a lot with a small assortment like the Nicholson 22030 set to get started for most things.A good set of medium cut needle files is usefull tone of the handier special types has no cut on the edges so if your deepening a slot you're not widening it as you cut deeper.Files for cutting dovetails have a feature like that.For gunbuilding where you would be working on stocks and doing a lot of draw filing you would need the longer and bigger files.A lot of the books on building rifles have a chapter on shop tools and what you need in the way of hand tools.Getting or making a good handle to put on the file makes them much easier to manipulate.Get a good file card to keep them clean.

Shop around,the file set I mentioned above I have seen as high as $167 list to $54.99 on e-bay.At flea markets and gun shows there's usually somebody selling shop supplies,often they have odd lots of good brands of files cheap,hardly anyone uses them anymore.A guy used to show up at an area gunshow with industrial surplus shop stuff with Nicholson files priced by the inch,10 inch files were a $1.50,I bought about $60 worth and got a heck of an assortment of length and types.Shop around for prices.

Remember too,when a file is no longer is usefull for it's original purpose you can grind the end into a chisel shape for a hand chisel,make scrapers out of them,and in the end you can make knives out of them if you have a forge handy.And worn out ones can be used for hot filing metal when they no longer work on cold metal.I've got a bucket full of old files saved for other projects I'll probably never get to.LOL

 

[ohio ramrod]

There are a lot of junk Chinese made files out there these days. I stick to Nickelson or Siemons and have no problems either using or makinf knives from them. :idunno:

 

[mattybock]

I'm guessing that if a file is good for steel it's good for brass and other softer metals.
So, I need two basic sets;
- a set that can take care of 4140 chrome-molly steel
- a set, or partial set, that can easily help me trim down hardwood such as hickory.

 

[crockett]

Well I'll tell you one I just discovered and I am a happy camper :grin: It is a needle file sold by Woorcrafters BUT it has rasp teeth!!!! You can buy either a circular one or square one. If you drill a series of holes for the wedge and then connect them to make the slot. Always took me some time. Last job- done in about 5 minutes.
Be prepared to "make" some of your files by grinding the teeth off a surface to make a safe side. Most of us end up with an odd assortment of tools and jigs we have made.
Get a good wire brush and keep the file clean so it doesn't pick up pieces of metal that can gouge your work. I caulk my files as well.
The draw file sold by Brownell's is another essential because it is wide. You can draw file with any file and I "rough in" that way and then finish metal work with the Brownell- wiring brushing between every stroke at the finish.

 

[mattybock]

the notion of making files had never accorded to me before. :grin:

 

[Zonie]

You may find this link very helpful
FILING 101

 

[Mike Brooks]

Keep in mind this is the guy that is going to market a gun kit for $60......:rotf:

 

[Zonie]

Give him a break Mike.

It does sound like he's trying to learn and the more he understands the better he will become at estimating how much stuff costs and how much work is involved in this line of work.

 

[Paul R]

Use only new files for brass. Do not be tempted to use your nice new 'brass' file on steel or it will never cut brass again. Wait till it gets too dull to cut brass. Then it becomes a 'steel' file.
If you know somebody who works in a cabinet shop where they finish plastic laminate edges with special files, they often throw them away when dull. If you can score some of these, they still work great for steel.
Paul

 

[Stumpkiller]

About 25 years ago I dropped a wad on several 10" Nicholson wood files: course half-round, cabinet, flat and course flat. Still serving me well.

Several mill ******* and fine single cut 10" Nicholsons since then - they see harder service than the wood files.

Files are like sandpaper - different cuts/courseness for different jobs.

 

[Mike Brooks]

Give him a break Mike.

It does sound like he's trying to learn and the more he understands the better he will become at estimating how much stuff costs and how much work is involved in this line of work.

I figured he'd probably have made all his own files by now...... :grin:

 

[Paul R]

Mike - He's like a puppy with a lot of youthful exuberance. When he settles down, he'll be good to go.
Mattybok - It's hard to re-invent the wheel before you know how a wheel is made. This is a great place to learn. Stick around and enjoy the journey.

Paul

 

[crockett]

Stumpkiller has a good point. You are supposed to draw the file foreward and then lift it off the work and repeat. All too many folks just go back and forth and that could dull a file. If you file properly, with a good file, it ought to last a long time. Use chalk and a file brush and treat them right. Personally I think the Chinese files are junk. Remember what I said about a file grabbing a tiny metal fragment that acts like a tooth and gouges your work. You don't have to spend a fortune on files but do get good quality. A good quality file is more uniform and results in better work.
Chisels: same thing- I've ground down chisels to match the flats on a barrel- to inletting the barrel.
I also go to a place like ace hardware and get mild iron bars and polish up the flats. To these I glue sandpaper. A lot of folks just wrap sandpaper around a block of wood or maybe a metal bar but the glued on sandpaper really results in superior work. Use Elmer's because it is not water proof and you can clean up easy. Non-water proof glue is a very handy thing- you can glue a tiny part to something more manageable and work on that tiny part- when done soak in water and the glue will dissolve and free the part. Hide glue is very strong.
As I said, you should also be prepared to make jigs to do various tasks. You might spend 3 or 4 hours to make a jig and allows you to do a particular task in seconds. Jigs generally insure better work. Save whatever jigs you make for future projects. I use them in both knife making and gun making. Part of the fun is thinking about how to best accomplish each step of the job.

 

[Rifleman1776]

I figured he'd probably have made all his own files by now......

I belong to a woodworking forum that has a member from Spain. That is what does, makes file and rasps by hand. He posted a video, very painstaking work. His sell for top dollar.

 

[Zonie]

Another source for files that is often overlooked is in the chain saw department of some hardware stores.

The flat and round files that are normally used for sharpening chain saw chains are excellent files and they don't cost an arm and a leg either.

No, they won't replace a good mill or bastaard file but for smaller jobs or when some small radius needs to be created they work well.

 

[crockett]

As a side note- all files were hand cut and Sam Colt and D. C. Sageof MIddleton, CT worked on developing a machine to cut file teeth- which made the file far more affordable.

 

[mattybock]

Now I figure I'll keep two sets, one for brass only, the other for steel.
I was under the impression that an old file would be good for soft brass. Woops.

Thanks for saving me money on that one.

Around here the main industry is Walmart and... uh... meth. That's about it around these parts. Can I interest you in some lovely lawn ornaments that look like fashionable car parts?

 

[illuveatar]

I went to a local flea market just two days ago after reading a bit of this thread. There were dozens of tables full of old tools. Normally I just walk past these tables but on Thursday I stopped and examined the hundreds of quality American made tools. I found three nearly unused files and two of these were the Nicholson brand. The teeth were clean, appeared sharp and the best part was that I only paid a dollar per file. I also got a few hand saws on the cheap and a tasty polish dog.

Walmart sells cheap tools that are cheaply constructed too. I would suggest you scout out yard sales and flea markets to get some good deals.

Oh, and stay away from the meth if you can help it. :stir: :barf: