Finish?

[Artificer]

I already have a big jug of 100% pure tung oil. It's my favorite finish on the drums that I build.
I was debating using it since I already have it.
Also, the stock I am working with is American Walnut. I am also debating staining it a little darker first.
I think I should maybe just keep it natural. I always liked wood to be it's natural color in my other projects.
Picture attached just to show some of the other stuff I have built.

View attachment 73211View attachment 73212

Wow! Well paradiddle my flamacue! Lovely instruments there!! Bet you get a very nice sound out of the wood shells.

First of all, there IS a huge difference in what oils to use on gun stocks. They already knew it well by the first part of the 18th century, as they had most finishes then that we have today -except of course for epoxy finishes.

Basic oils alone were/are OK for indoor furniture as they are not subjected to rain or snow, salt water and especially not to strong sunlight for extended periods that can dry out a stock and allow it to crack easily. The latter is the reason why generations of G.I.'s were doomed to continually rubbing coats of Linseed oil on stocks and yes, I did as well in my early years in the Marine Corps.

The U.S. Park Service has some excellent info on finishes and show raw and most MODERN Boiled Linseed Oils (BLO) barely wave at water vapor going in and out of the stock through these finishes, but it does help against drying too much a little bit - as these oils never completely dry out for many, many decades. (A reason why linseed oil was used in the paint of the Great Masters, or else the paint would have dried and flaked off decades ago.) A THIN coat of wax over top of such finishes does much more to stop too much water vapor passing through oil finishes and they used beeswax for that from the 17th century onwards.

However, in the 18th century they recognized the best finishes were REAL Boiled Linseed Oil (which was heated, though not actually "boiled") with driers added and even better - Oil Varnish finishes. These finishes were heated to partially polymerize the oil, though they didn't know the chemistry behind it.

Gus

 

[Artificer]

Here is a great article on original/traditional finishes:

Muzzle Blasts Online,Vol. 5, No. 2; Traditional Varnishes As Applied to Gunstocking

Gus

 

[springfield art]

Hi,
Guns in the 18th century were usually finished with an oil-varnish. Usually a mix of linseed oil and some sort of copal varnish. They were not given an "in the wood" oil finish. There is evidence that some American makers such as those within the Lehigh Valley of PA sealed the wood first with shellac, then used a tinted oil varnish on top. Your pistol is military and in truth, the arsenal would have slapped a thick oil-varnish on it and set it aside to dry. You can reproduce the look of almost all old finishes using tung oil, however, it is best to use polymerized tung oil or mix it with varnish or japan drier to vastly speed up drying. I use Sutherland-Welles polymerized tung oil medium gloss. Polymerization is simply a heating process and addition of some solvents to speed drying. Walnut benefits greatly from filling the pores by applying the first coats of finish using 220 grit sandpaper. Build a slurry of finish and saw dust on the surface and let it dry to a crust. Then sand smooth with 320 grit. No need to go higher. Then just apply a few more coats of finish without any sanding and you should be good to go. The original French pistols were stocked in European walnut. American walnut is a poor cousin and often has a cold purple-brown hue. You can make it look close to European and English walnut by first staining the stock with pure yellow aniline dye dissolved in water. That kills the cold purple brown and warms it up. Finally, another secret for walnut is alkanet root stain. I often, not always, use it. My stain is made from powdered root infused in mineral spirits. English gun makers in the 18th and 19th centuries often infused it in oil varnish finish. It brings out figure in walnut and gives it a warm reddish tint. Below are examples of all theses finishes on American and English walnut.

Below are photos of an original English fowler to show they did not use "in the wood" oil finishes even on cheap trade guns.

dave

Handsome!

 

[user 34300]

Dave is dead on. Do that.

I have finished hundreds of stocks over 50 years using every finish you can think of. For MLs I now use spar varnish and and mineral spirits with a dash of Japan dryer. Apply with a scrap of clean cloth and only wet the surface. Don't try to make it build up. That brew dries hard in a day. It takes me half a dozen coats to get a fully filled in the wood finish. You will know when to stop, when you stop getting dry areas from absorption. If somebody is applying a gillion coats they are doing something wrong.

What you use is not so important as how you use it. Use thin coats and let it dry between coats.

The only way to finish a stock in one shot is catalyzed finishes like they use on Weatherby stocks. Heat the stock then spray the finish on . That is wrong for MLs. It's good on modern guns where time is money. Those finishes damage your lungs and are illegal in some area now.

On the worthless list is BLO and anything water based. You can put a dab of BLO over a varnish finish to fool the guys a the club though. I stopped using True-oil 40 years ago. It is very low solids. If you try to build a slick filled finish it takes forever. When you cut it back with rubbing compound the finish layers show as lines in the finish. I grew to hate the stuff.

 

[dave_person]

Hi Scot,
Yeah. That "in the wood oil finish" stuff really did not become prominent until Scandinavian furniture was introduced to the general public in the 20th century. The low sheen oil finishes some folks seem to like on their supposedly 18th and 19th century muzzleloaders is a modern fantasy.

dave

 

[SOLANCO]

Remodeled our kitchen 6-7 years ago. In homage to all the sycamores on our ground used quarter sawn sycamore for a peninsula counter. The wood dealer recommended a local millwork company that has done work of an amazing caliber. They made the counter and finished it with a "catalyzed product from Europe".
The finish I would describe as a satin gloss. Not sure how it would look on a maple stock. But OMG how well it has withstood daily kitchen use!!!! And we cook. From scratch. Nearly every day of the year.

 

[macr0w]

Wow! Well paradiddle my flamacue!

Gus

Someone is speaking my language.

You know, military field drums are a whole other hobby.

 

[Art Caputo]

I’m a strong believer that even amongst the finishes designed for gun stocks, they are not equal. In my younger days when the muzzleloaders and unmentionables had various varnishes and oiled finishes, some would nicely resist the effects of week-long rain and moisture, and some were quite useless, showing the effects of water absorption. IMO, the key to a quality oil/varnish type finish is its ability to block moisture from penetrating the wood under prolonged exposure. Boiled linseed oil, by itself, WILL absorb water, and requires additives in the form of waterproof driers and hardeners that will both penetrate and shield the wood. While a good coat of wax will help, it will soon wash away in prolonged harsh conditions. Most gunstock formulations posses these additives, but they are only effective when used soon after opening or formulated, before the driers/hardeners evaporate and render them ineffective. Tru-Oil, Original Oil, Lin speed and other comparable oil-based products are good examples.

 

[Tom A Hawk]

Someone is speaking my language.

You know, military field drums are a whole other hobby.

Ahem... "Ratamacue"

 

[Artificer]

Someone is speaking my language.

You know, military field drums are a whole other hobby.

Rudimental Concert and Field Drummer 4th - 12th grade. In Boot Camp after an audition, I was invited by the San Diego Bandmaster to join the San Diego USMC band, but turned it down because I wanted to get into gunsmithing. (My long roll in warm up and the fact I could read rhythm well, impressed him.)

In the early 80's when I was doing Confederate Marine, my C.O. heard of a repro period field snare for sale at a good price and asked me if I would drum for the unit. WOW, are period rope drums with real rawhide heads and gut tensioners hard to keep in working order, even when cased and stored properly overnight in tents as carefully as possible! The heads had to dry in the sun for a while before any kind of beat could be done on them.

After that, I did find three more wood drum shells and rims I converted to rope drums for others, but mine weren't nearly as nice as yours are.

Gus

 

[Artificer]

Ahem... "Ratamacue"

Isn't that a dish in French Cuisine?

More Rudimentalist Drummers here than I thought.

Gus

 

[Tom A Hawk]

Nah, thats ratatouille.

 

[ApprenticeBuilder]

I found this to be the the absolute best information concerning the what, how, and why, and the current ways for us to reproduce today what they did yesteryear.

And yes Dave Person is spot on in his information, the rest is just modern styles, techniques, and materials producing a modern result.

 

[macr0w]

Rudimental Concert and Field Drummer 4th - 12th grade. In Boot Camp after an audition, I was invited by the San Diego Bandmaster to join the San Diego USMC band, but turned it down because I wanted to get into gunsmithing. (My long roll in warm up and the fact I could read rhythm well, impressed him.)

In the early 80's when I was doing Confederate Marine, my C.O. heard of a repro period field snare for sale at a good price and asked me if I would drum for the unit. WOW, are period rope drums with real rawhide heads and gut tensioners hard to keep in working order, even when cased and stored properly overnight in tents as carefully as possible! The heads had to dry in the sun for a while before any kind of beat could be done on them.

After that, I did find three more wood drum shells and rims I converted to rope drums for others, but mine weren't nearly as nice as yours are.

Gus

That's awesome dude.
You are probably better educated than I am.
I've played for rock, blues, funk and jazz groups most of my life.

And you are totally correct on the rope tension drums.
I've done one resto and played a few.
They are tough.

 

[Artificer]

That's awesome dude.
You are probably better educated than I am.
I've played for rock, blues, funk and jazz groups most of my life.

And you are totally correct on the rope tension drums.
I've done one resto and played a few.
They are tough.

You are very kind, but it probably is more correct to say I got a good deal of rudimental training thanks to our school system. My parents could never afford a trap set for me, so I was never able to pursue that area, even for the pure enjoyment in recreational use. Still, I very much appreciate the years I spent in concert and field drumming, as it helped me in so many other areas.

Gus

 

[Rudyard]

I use Fiebings leather die mostly' British tan' some times add mixed with' Marine black' if a dark look is wanted . I then use raw linseed & rubbing with fine emory paper while still oily then after it shows up all the tool marks you miss I utter naughty words but console my self they are 'Documentary " and blow it. Then days of rubbing are then let to dry out and I give a few' boneing ' rubs And beeswax them . They might look like a peach but with use they answer just fine . I 've had stocks so sodden the maple warped away but as it dried it all went back .Bit of linseed and were back as good as new . I like the' aged' look I do it by using it so long its'' aged ' even if I didn't want it to be ..Do I then recomend my methods ? .Nope. Just go with Dave Person he seems to have got this caper down pat .What they will look like after 20 or 40 years of use is anyones guess ( I dont guess I know!) But if you've had faithful service for that long from your gun keep it up & your great grand kids should get to admire it . . Is that helpful? probably not but its what I did ,do, & find agreeable .
Regards Rudyard

 

[Davey Boy]

If you scratch the wood and you can't afford the fancy stuff, coffee grounds do a good job.

and the gun smells good too

 

[longun]

View attachment 73620


I found this to be the the absolute best information concerning the what, how, and why, and the current ways for us to reproduce today what they did yesteryear.

And yes Dave Person is spot on in his information, the rest is just modern styles, techniques, and materials producing a modern result.

AB - where did you find this book? i did a search & nothing came up. thanks!

 

[ApprenticeBuilder]

AB - where did you find this book? i did a search & nothing came up. thanks!

Not sure to be honest, bought it quite a few years ago while researching the forums and it was mentioned by one of the better builders as the "goto" for period stains and finishes and their proper application, at that time I found a copy using an interweb search.

Interesting that the interweb is now devoid of most information concerning that book, from my limited research Bill Knight is/was known around the forums as "The Mad Monk", I can remember reading his posts concerning black powder, he was very knowledgeable and opinionated, and always willing to engage in heated debate.

Sorry, besides the book that's all I've got.

 

[longun]

no worries - thanks for responding.

gotta love a guy like Knight