fire pistons

[Mort Scott]

Just came across these and they look prity useful. has any one out there use them . History said they have been around for a long time but never came across anything like this in my reading. check them out on U-tube

 

[paulvallandigham]

IIRC, a French patent was issued for the "Fire Piston" in about 1807, just before the "Safety match" was invented and became much more popular, and CHEAPER to use.

I bought a Fire Piston a few years back, to use as a teaching aid for my Hunter Safety courses. I bought one made from Acrylic, so that you could look through the trunk and actually see the ember produced as the result of the compressed air.

It does work, but I requires some practice, and knowing what tinder to use, and how to select dry tinder to get that ember going. I have made "fire" with the tinder fungus that came with my fire piston, and with charred cloth from my flint and steel kit, but used in the fire piston.


If I were to make one, or order another, I would want the trunk longer, and I would want a wider "top" to the plunger so it doesn't hurt my hand hitting it. I have large hands, that are wide, and my fire piston is almost too short to hold steady in my hand, while smacking the top of the plunger with the other. If you do a "google " search on fire pistons, you can find detailed drawings and instructions on how to make them. You do have to pay attention to the fine details however, if you expect to compress the air sufficiently to ignite your tinder.

For instance, unless you are using a milling machine to drill the hole, with an end mill bit, I recommend using a standard drill that is undersized, and then a separate REAMER to make a very smooth tube with finely finished walls to help you get that needed level of compression. If you are going to use antler, or wood for the trunk, then you probably will want to put some kind of grain sealer, or finish in that tube to close those open pores.

During the 1960s, the story goes that we had people training in the Philippines,and one day, a US helicopter pilot, flying over remote jungles, saw a camp of indigenous people. He landed the helicopter, met with the chief, and eventually traded for a fire piston the chief owned made out of water buffalo horn. It now rests in the Smithsonian Institute, In Washington D.C. according to the accounts I read.

At the time, everyone thought the fire piston was a " Primitive fire starting tool, because these people live in such a primitive manner. However, further study found that the tribe was not as isolated as first believed, and were known to Catholic Missionaries going back to when Spain owned the nation. Its likely that the natives learned about the fire piston 200 years ago, NOT 5,000 years ago, or more.

This more recent information has brought into question as to whether the "Fire Piston" is a primitive fire starting tool at all. There are 4 recognized primitive methods of starting fires;
Percussion, Friction,Refraction and Reflection.

Some primitive peoples in SE Asia have been found to have made fire pistons out of bamboo( a grass), and that is the reason the fire piston has not been ruled out altogether as a primitive method of fire starting.

Because bamboo is so ubiquitous, but also grows in climates where finding any artifacts is highly unlikely, the question simply has been left " Open", until some archeological evidence IS found. Right now, we can't find any evidence that the fire piston was in use in the 18th century or earlier. :thumbsup:

 

[Claude Mathis]

Just came across these and they look prity useful. has any one out there use them.

Here's a few previous discussions.
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/229441
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/216660
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/202482
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/195930
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/125553
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/195903

 

[fiddler]

a few (maybe many....) months back, Backwoodsman had an article on making fire pistons using 1/2" copper stub. Pretty simple and actually works. Depending on whether you have some dowel and rubber O rings lying about, the total cost is

 

[paulvallandigham]

Those copper tubing, rubber o-ring fire pistons are fine, but you won't find copper tubing in the woods, nor those rubber o-rings. This is suppose to be a " PRIMITIVE" fire starting tool, NO?

I bought a Lexan( acrylic) version to allow other people( students) to understand the principal of how it works. You can see through the side of the tube and watch the ember be made. There is Nothing Primitive about the model I bought for that purpose.

Were I going to actually carry a fire piston into the woods to use as a survival tool, I would take the time to bore out some hardwood, fit a wooden piston to it, using string( eventually, some that I made as cordage), lubed with animal fat,for the seal.

Personally, I am not convinced that the fire piston is a true " Primitive" fire starting tool, as there is a French Patent on the idea that was issued in about 1807, IIRC. The fire piston simply didn't catch on, because safety matches appeared within a couple of years, and were a much better idea. Matches were very cheap, and were much easier to use( as you found out) to start a fire.

I have no doubt that the idea of the fire piston was one of the ideas that lead to the invention of the internal combustion engine, but that is another story. The use of expanding gas(as opposed to compressed gas) to move pistons eventually was used by John Moses Browning to product the first gas-operated machine guns, so these ideas about using energy never strayed far from early firearms technology. :hatsoff:

 

[ohio ramrod]

After reading about them a few years back I made several out of walnut, and used a beeswaxed thread to make the "gasket seal" .After many attempts I got one that did work, in that it produced an ember. But the trouble I had was the ember would be pressed into the "clyinder" and not on to the end of the piston so I had problems getting the ember out before it "burned out". I gave it up as an interesting but not useful toy.Yes, they existed pre 1840 but they were certainly not in common usage.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Drill a small hole in the nose of your "piston" into which you stuff the charred cloth or tinder you want to burn. The burning timber comes out of the handle and you can then pick it out with a pick, or knife, and dump the ember onto your tinder to blow into a fire.

Once you learn how much force and how fast you have to move the piston to create the ember, its no slower to use than a bow and spindle, or flint and steel. The only concern is seeing that all the ember comes out of the nose of your piston, so it doesn't burn out the wall of the hole.

 

[skunkskinner]

Put a small amount of Vaseline on the piston end so the char will stick to it. Works for me.

 

[chichi]

I tried to make a fire piston a few years ago and was not successful after a few tries.
The Backwoodsman article may have identified the problem. Many woods are too porous to hold the air under high pressure so the diesel effect is lost.
Could the successful makers describe the wood they used and whether they think porosity is a big issue.
Thanks,
Bob

 

[skunkskinner]

I used black walnut for the one i made, it works OK. Porous wood will not work very good. The one i got off the net is a very hard wood, i forgot the name of the wood.

 

[cutshurt]

I've made (way) more then a thousand fire pistons and have tried all types of wood, horn, plastics and metals for them and I have a short list of what is worth using for them Cocobolo, Lignum Vite, any rose wood, ebony, Desert Ironwood, Bubinga, Water Buffalo horn, Antler if its drilled slowly. Metal & Plastic ones are a different animal all together. They are a real fire starting tool and have been used for at least 2000 years.

http://paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/topic/21296

Here’s an article that’s got a lot of good info.

Darrel

 

[paulvallandigham]

A French patent was issued for the "fire Piston" in about 1807, if memory serves me correctly. I have seen nothing that indicates such devices were used before then. I was hoping this reference would offer some proof of earlier use. Other than an assertion that the device existed 1000 years ago, I saw no proof. I am waiting, and willing to be persuaded...... Please Help!