Firearms in the northern Mexican frontier territories 1830s-40s ?

[hyuzu]

I hope this is the right place to ask, I didn't see any dedicated history section on this forum. I'm interested in getting a better idea of the firearms (civilian and military) used by residents of the northern Mexican frontier territories of Alta California and Nuevo México during the 1830s-40s. If anyone has historical sources, accounts, or even pictures of surviving weapons, I'd love to see them.

I've come across several sources which apply the usual broad layman's terms to the firearms used in the region, such as "muskets" and "flintlocks". But I'm curious to find some actual details, for example:

-Gun models/patterns.
-Whether they were all imports, or if there was much local Mexican production at the time.
-Whether there were any multi-shot variants recorded in use (e.g. pepperbox handguns or double-barreled long guns).
-How common percussion guns were compared to flintlocks.
etc. etc.

 

[plmeek]

The Mexican government, like the Spanish, either prohibited or discourage trading guns with Indians, so the primary arms in Alta California and Nuevo Mexico from the 1700's to 1820 would have been military arms. Spanish Escopetas with miquelet fintlock were common. The Model 1791 Spanish Musket again with miquelet fintlocks, followed the Escopetas. After Mexico gained independence from Spain in 1821, Mexico purchased military muskets from England. These included 2nd and 3rd Model Brown Besses as well as New Land Pattern Brown Besses.

New Mexico was often a neglected province during Spanish rule and didn't receive sufficient arms to protect itself from Indian raids from the Apache and Comanche. New Mexican traders would travel into present day Kansas and as far away as the Mandan villages on the Missouri River to trade with Plains Indians. One of the primary trade items the New Mexicans wanted were French trade guns that they could use for defense purposes. This trade continued well pass the F&I War for even though the French lost their territory in North America, their traders continued to operate out of New Orleans along the Mississippi River and up the Red, Arkansas, and the Missouri Rivers. French trade guns would have been available up to the time of the Louisiana Purchase.

Following Mexican Independence, regular trade began in 1822 (the same year Ashely first went up the Missouri) between Santa Fe and St. Louis using the Santa Fe Trail. These traders would have brought the same type of trade guns and trade rifles to Santa Fe as went to the Rocky Mountain rendezvous. The common New Mexican citizen probably couldn't afford these guns, though. They would have been traded to the owners of haciendas for use by their employees for protection against Indian raids and to fur traders and trappers out of Taos.

I don't know of any Mexican produced guns. They appear to be all imports--Spanish, English, and American.

Pepperbox handguns and double-barreled long guns were common on the frontier in the 1830-40s, so I would expect some made it to the Mexican territories, but can't cite any references.

Percussion guns could have been a little more common in New Mexico than in the Northern Rockies. The Santa Fe trade would have been able to supply the guns and the percussion caps in sufficient quantity for people that didn't venture too far from Santa Fe and Taos. Charles Hanson felt that more Hawken rifles likely traveled the Santa Fe Trail than went to the Rocky Mountain Rendezvous. These would have most likely been percussion, too.

Phil Meek

 

[tenngun]

About 1847 (?) there was a band of’border roughens’ that weretaken with flint, percussion, Spanish and English muskets rifles and pistols.

 

[Elnathan]

https://www.amazon.com/dp/0811715841/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

A little earlier than your desired era, but worth looking at. Lots of fun stuff in it. If you can't find a used copy at an affordable price (try bookfinder.com) then you could see if you could get it via interlibrary loan.

Garavaglia and Worman's Guns of the American West, 1803-1865 also might have some useful info.

 

[hyuzu]

Thanks lads for the replies, I appreciate the help with this niche topic.

 

[BrownBear]

Kinda fascinating to read about the fur trappers working out of Taos in that era. You'll recognize some very familiar names. Those guys brought a lot of familiar arms from the Rockies with them for their own use, though I can't find any reference for them trading guns. This is a very good book to add to your library. Interesting stuff in there, including an account of conical bullets used in a true Hawken in 1832 (if memory serves- could have been 1834).

Anything you can find on the Comancheros is likely to include any references to gun trading. As far as I've been able to determine, the very active Navajo raiders didn't use firearms, though.

I'm not at home with my library to provide a citation, but I have a journal from an individual who spent time in California before the gold rush and goes into considerable detail on the life and times there. Haven't read it in a while, so my details are skimpy. The one that stands out is an account of a brawl between Mexican and US soldiers. The Americanos came off very badly in the face of the highly skilled Mexican lancers on horseback. Cut them to shreds while the US troops were fumbling around trying to reload. You certainly won't find that detail in heroic US history books, but I'm happy to take the word of a firsthand witness.

Only reason I bring up that last bit, there are several different original journals written in that era when you start looking for them. I found them through book searches and didn't pay a whole lot of money for them. Oh, another thing that pops up there is the role of the mission system in CA. Don't recall any reference to guns, but plenty of evidence as to why the Indians decided to revolt here and there.

 

[Nativearizonan]

Kinda fascinating to read about the fur trappers working out of Taos in that era. You'll recognize some very familiar names. Those guys brought a lot of familiar arms from the Rockies with them for their own use, though I can't find any reference for them trading guns. This is a very good book to add to your library. Interesting stuff in there, including an account of conical bullets used in a true Hawken in 1832 (if memory serves- could have been 1834).

Anything you can find on the Comancheros is likely to include any references to gun trading. As far as I've been able to determine, the very active Navajo raiders didn't use firearms, though.

I'm not at home with my library to provide a citation, but I have a journal from an individual who spent time in California before the gold rush and goes into considerable detail on the life and times there. Haven't read it in a while, so my details are skimpy. The one that stands out is an account of a brawl between Mexican and US soldiers. The Americanos came off very badly in the face of the highly skilled Mexican lancers on horseback. Cut them to shreds while the US troops were fumbling around trying to reload. You certainly won't find that detail in heroic US history books, but I'm happy to take the word of a firsthand witness.

Only reason I bring up that last bit, there are several different original journals written in that era when you start looking for them. I found them through book searches and didn't pay a whole lot of money for them. Oh, another thing that pops up there is the role of the mission system in CA. Don't recall any reference to guns, but plenty of evidence as to why the Indians decided to revolt here and there.

I read a similar, perhaps the same account in Kit Carson's Autobiography. It was in Dec. 1846, near San Diego California with US troops under General Kearny against locals armed with mostly lances. I seem to remember one American fell to a musket ball and the rest were killed with lances. The Americans took heavy losses. Carson reports several officers killed and even Kearny was badly injured.

I searched and found the battle on Wikipedia. It is known as the Battle of San Pasqual:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_San_Pasqual

The account says some of the dragoons were pulled from their mounts and hogtied before being lanced, which makes me think lassos were also being used as weapons. Perhaps they didn't even have enough lances to go around? Kearny claimed it as a victory, even with 17 Americans killed and 18 wounded, because the Californios finally withdrew from the field. It was obviously a major American embarrassment if not a defeat.

 

[Rat]

It is my understanding that the half-stock rifles usually associated with the Rocky Mountain fur trade, were more of the era you are talking about. (having lived in Southern Cal, this is very interesting to me also) I believe the Mexican Army used the Brown Bess, bought surplus from England, so there must have been a few of them around. Lancers are indeed effective, and a force to be feared. In Afghanistan, early in the last century, it was the British lancers that could really kick the Afgan's butts.