First BP rifle suggestions? MI

[chad1043]

Hi,
I want to expend my deer season and have some fun too. I think I want to stay in the traditional market. I really like the Traditions Tennessee Muzzleloader, but I am having a hard time finding it anywhere except their website. I hunt in Michigan. Shots are around 100 yards.

Any other suggestions? Any reviews on the Tennessee Muzzleloader?

Thanks!

 

[roboskittle]

I myself have never had any experience with that particular rifle but I am sure its not too far off what my dad hunts with. I myself use a T/C Renegade in 50 cal and have nothing but praise for it. My only suggestion is do your research and dont rush into any purchase. Thompson Centers will not let you down though as long as they were taken care of if you are considering a used gun.

 

[cowpoke1955]

Dixie carries the Traditions Tennessee: http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_92_186_191&products_id=12447 . Try looking at the Lyman Trade Rifle: http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=000156032125 . It's a lot cheaper than the Traditions. Another rifle is the Lyman Great Plains Rifle: http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=000156031102 . The GPR is only a few dollars more than the Traditions and a lot more rifle. Both Lyman rifles come in .50 and .54 caliber. Something to consider :v

 

[Billnpatti]

There are several nice guns for sale on the Forum Ads. Take a look at what is available there. I have a T/C Hawken in .50 cal and a Lyman GPR. Both are great guns and worth considering. I have a friend who has a Traditions rifle and he thinks it is wonderful. He knows what he is talking aobut so I respect his opinion. All three of these rifles are readily available from time to time on the Forum.

 

[SSGN_Doc]

I just picked up my first black powder rifle this year. I got a Traditions Hawken in .50. I bought mine used at a pawn shop for les than a hundred bucks. The trigger was awful, and it needed a new nipple, but was otherwise in good shap with some light rust at the mouth of the bore.

I have cleaned up the trigger, and bore, and it shoots great, (I'm getting rounds touching the same hole out to 50 yds with 75gr of FFG under a .490 lead ball and a 0.015 lubed patch.) I figured I'd go cheap on my first BP rifle to start deciding what I like and don't like. Seems to be working out well so far.

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Hi,
I want to expend my deer season and have some fun too. I think I want to stay in the traditional market. I really like the Traditions Tennessee Muzzleloader, but I am having a hard time finding it anywhere except their website. I hunt in Michigan. Shots are around 100 yards.

Any other suggestions? Any reviews on the Tennessee Muzzleloader?

Thanks!

You mean for NEXT hunting season, right?? Although 100 yard shots are possible, one just doesn't go buy a rifle, and take it into the woods hunting the next day/week. Every one is different, and requires load work-up, and you being accustomed to the quirks of a BP firearm. Your inclination towards traditional is commendable, however you're not giving yourself enough practice with a brand new experience. You may miss altogether, or worse yet, just injure the game to the point that it has to crawl-away and die a slow, horrible death. That's not responsible hunting.

Using a ML to "extend" hunting season is a bit whimsical when hunting season is about to start or has started already, especially if you don't even have the rifle YET.......

Now if you've already owned a similar gun (expertly sighted-in by you) that burnt-up in a fire somewhere, and know where to start load-wise, and are a "crack shot" or "Shootist", then go for it. Otherwise, wait till next year to take it afield.

Dave

 

[chad1043]

Dave... Whatever, nice reply. Maybe you should take a post as an opportunity to help someone instead of jumping to the conclusion that I'm gonna buy a ML and run into the woods. I understand where you are coming from, but come on.

To all the other replies, thanks for the input. I really like the GPR. I hear they are pretty heavy. Anyone use one in the woods? Move around in a blind?

 

[necchi]

They do all the time chad.
Dave's post is comendable. he is trying to give you very sound advise.
Look at it from our take, we get about 6 questions almost exactly like your each week and there are plenty of guy's here to help.
There are no bad or dumb questions, but for your sake you'll get much better response to further your knowledge if you had at least some background to work with.
Asking whats a good rifle is like asking whats better, Blonde Brunette or Redhead, Ford, Chevy or Dodge.
Please, don't be offended I don't mean it that way, But if you spend just a little time reading the archives (back pages) of some of the top forums here, Percussion, Shooting Asseccory's, General Muzzle, Gun Builders bench, you'll find many of the same questions asked and answered in depth and you'll build a knowledge base to work from.
I'd suggest an entry level gun, something not too expensive, T/C-Lyman-CVA-Traditions-Cabelas-Investarms----all make reliable guns. Then you'll need all the other stuff, and more questions
Whats the best patch?
What's the best Lube?
What's the best powder?
All of the above you can get answered by many and their personal preferance, which will vary by experiance. And if you do just some reading you'll find all those answers made in just this last week and you'll be able to formulate a more specific question.
Dave wasn't trying to be rude and neither am I, but it's much easier to help someone when their basic premise is more than "extend my season".
If that's all your after I'm sure the local Wally world has something in a Bubble pack with everything you need except caps for 149.99 and if you wait till after season you can probably get it at clearance for 129.99

 

[luieb45]

If I were willing to pay that much for a gun I'd definitely wouldn't buy a traditions. They're ok if purchased cheap but aren't worth what you have to pay for them new. I'd go with either the lyman trade rifle or great plains rifle. But if you find a good used thompson center I'd buy that. I have a thompson center renegade and it's a great durable gun. My traditions looked nice when it was still fairly new but went down hill quickly. My thompson center looks just as good as when it was new.

 

[chad1043]

Necchi,
Thanks for the insight. I get the response, I understand where he is coming from. But in my defense there was nothing that I could find in the search about the specific rifle I was looking for. So I thought I would post up.

BTW, I found a 54 GPR in the classifieds. I pulled the trigger after reading posts here and several other places for over a year. Thanks for the replies.

 

[henbrook]

Really Dave...next year?Pullease.Wee bit of an elitist attitude isn't it?This isn't rocket science we're talking about.

I don't mean to downplay the dedication and range time that it takes to get "really good" with a ML,but I believe anybody with a reasonable amount of hunting/shooting experience,a decent quality rifle,and armed with the vast resources of load data,shooting and cleaning processes etc. available here,free for the reading and elsewhere on the net,that the person should be able to shoot reasonable,"minute of deer" groups almost if not immediately.I'm not talking 100 yard cloverleafs,but rather 4-6" 100yard groups or half that size group at 50 yards.If a person is comfortable with their ability to place a ball/bullet where they want to and know and respect their limitations,I don't see anything wrong with going hunting tommorrow.We're not talking about a traditional longbow here,it's a rifle for chrissakes.

Again,I don't mean to downplay the dedication it takes to get good and I apologise if it comes across that way.As something of a "newbie" myself,both to MLs and to this forum,I find that this forum like no other hunting/shooting forum I've ever visited is steeped in tradition with dedicated traditionalists and a wealth of collective ML knowledge,but I think to discourage a new/would be ML enthusiast is just plain wrong.

My .02 for what it's worth is if he can confidently and cosistantly hold a 2-3" group at 50 yards,knows his limitations and respects them,then go for it and have fun.obviously(hopefully?)NOBODY would go deer hunting with an unfamiliar rifle that they don't know how to shoot or where the bullets will land.Put in a bit of range time and take it from there to decide how far you can honestly shoot comfortably.When it comes to making ethical decisions in the field,only the hunter himself can make that shoot/don't shoot choice.It's not mine,yours,nor anybody else's place to say any individual person "NEEDS" a year's practice before they even think about hunting live game.

 

[necchi]

henbrook, your right with this;
"consistantly hold a 2-3" group at 50 yards,knows his limitations and respects them,then go for it"
But that is by far the biggest problem, many don't know the linitations and more don't even car. After you've hung around awhile and see the repeated topics, the repeated questions, year after year and usually just before or during deer season you'll come to see the frustration.

Just this past week in another section was 3 topics disscussing and arguing powders, you can go back to topics when this forum began in 03 and find the exact same info.
There is a tremendous volume of knowledge here, but how many bother to read when it's easier to just post another form of the same question that happend to drop to the 2nd pagejust an hour earlier? :idunno:

 

[chad1043]

OR you could just let people add their positive comments. Why is trying to extend my season or learning to use a new rifle such a problem? I posted on this forum because I thought it would be good place to get some advice. But like all forums, if you don't have anything positive to say, just say it anyway.

 

[henbrook]

I hear ya on the repeat questions,but that happens on EVERY forum I visit.I'm sure I'm guilty of that myself here,I find the search feature not eggzkly the most user friendly I've come across and usually end up reading pages worth of topics to find what I'm looking for,unless I'm pressed for time or get frustrated.
As for the "extended season marketing"...yes,it's a plague on the spirit in which primitive weapon seasons were created imho.Kinda sad to browse the offerings on TC's website after producing so many trusted sidelock models over the years,now they offer only the Hawken in .50 cap or flint,and probly no less than a dozen in***** in every stainless,composite,camo configuration imaginable. :barf:
Refreshing at least to see the OP(chad) showing an interest in sidelocks where most are only interested in front stuffing centerfires these days to extend their hunting.I'd bet if we polled the members here,other than a handful,many(most?) might honestly admit that their original interest in MLs stemmed from the extended season opportunities,albeit for many members here I suspect that sidelocks were the only game in town at the time anyhow?
Personally speaking,I just like and have always had an interst in MLs and the old ways.I was introduced to them by a work buddy a few years ago.I have no "extended deer season" to use mine,although I can use it year round for varmints while centerfires here are restricted to less than .23 after big game seasons end.My deer hunting buds look at me like I have 3 heads for choosing to "handicap" myself while I have a perfectly good,30-06 pump gathering dust in the closet that has killed a reefer van full'o game for me over the years,lol.They just don't get it....most of them anyhow?I like to razz them and tell them how I need to be challenged these days,that hunting with a repeating centerfire has become too easy and routine for me and I feel I should give the local deer herd a sporting chance,roflmao. :grin: All in good fun/deer camp banter,usually fueled by rum and good CDN beer. :wink:

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Dave... Whatever, nice reply. Maybe you should take a post as an opportunity to help someone instead of jumping to the conclusion that I'm gonna buy a ML and run into the woods. I understand where you are coming from, but come on.

To all the other replies, thanks for the input. I really like the GPR. I hear they are pretty heavy. Anyone use one in the woods? Move around in a blind?

How many full range days of practice do you intend to give yourself to get to know this rifle? Are you an Expert Rifleman? By stating in your original post that the reason for considering buying a ML was to "extend" your season, you sort of tipped your hand. Most game harvested with traditional muzzleloaders is in the 35-75 yard range, and only a crack shot with a well-tuned rifle with months of practice behind him/her would attempt a 100 yard shot, especially in bad weather or poor light conditions, or both. A patched round ball looses it's effective killing power past 100 or so yards, so most shots are around 75 or less. It requires the hunter to be quiet and to stalk the prey. And use a rifle that they're completely familiar with.

I've helped quite a lot of folks over time on this forum, and in person. The last time I had the pleasure of speaking with someone who wanted a muzzleloader to "extend" his hunting season, the rifle used #209 primers and the guy wanted to make 100-150 yard shots. If you're willing to pass-up out-of-range game using a traditional ML, and say so, you'll get more respect and all of the help you're looking for, from myself and others!

I'm sorry if I've offended you. That was not my intention. These muzzleloaders are very finicky. It's not like picking-up an Ar-15, setting the zero at 100 yards and already being on paper out of the box, with only final adjustments needing done. An investment of your time is required in order to learn how to use & clean these ML rifles. "Pushing the envelope" may result in an unsafe situation (a missfire or hangfire for instance), a missed chance at harvesting game cleanly, etc. I WANT you to have fun with your new rifle, to practice with it till it's second nature to you and to fully understand its limitations prior to taking it afield and possibly missing that big buck.

Have fun and be safe! And we'll all be right here to help you along! And thanks for thinking about traditional instead of just buying the 150 yard Zip Gun.

Dave

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Something as simple as having to make several range trips to file-down a front sight could wreak havoc on attempting to get a new rifle into the woods to hunt with. That's where I was coming from.

Most good shooters wouldn't want to handicap themselves with several issues to work-out all at once, I.E.: Load development, ball size, patch thickness, lube type, sights issues, wind conditions, and on and on.

I err on the side of caution. I never really know if the other guy on the keyboard is a well-rounded responsible outdoors-man or a whack-job. But then neither does he know all there is to know about me :haha: . I'm sorry if I seemed "elitist". I really don't take myself that seriously. You & I are practically on the same page by what I've read from you on this thread. You did say it "nicer" though :thumbsup: .

Dave

 

[cowpoke1955]

I have two .54 GPRs, one percussion and one flint. I have no problem carrying them through thick woods. They have excellent accuracy out to 100 yards. My favorite load is a .530 ball, pillow ticking patch (.018) lubed with Ballistol oil and 80 grains of FFg Goex. Gives me one ragged hole at 50 yards. Same results at 100 yards using 90 grains of FFg. If you get a percussion, I'd suggest changine the nipple to a Spitfire or Hot Shot with 6 X .75mm threads. The Lyman nipples are a little on the soft side. Good luck :thumbsup:

 

[GANGGREEN]

I don't really have a horse in this race but sometimes I do think flintlock/caplock guys can be a bit elitist or think a bit too highly of their abilities or their sport. That said, I'm always bothered by the attitude that punching a few holes in a 4-6" group from a bench on paper qualifies one to go out and shoot deer at those ranges because "that's good enough for deer" (go to any rifle range before deer season and you'll see it repeated with centerfire rifles over and over again. Then you'll see those same "good enough" hunters complaining to their buddies the next week that they "missed one" or "lost one").

There's a big difference between bench rest shooting at a paper target and sighting in on a deer in the woods, often from an offhand position, sometimes with snow falling or wind blowing branches around and with the deer almost always moving. Personally, if I was shooting a 6" group at any distance from the bench, I'd not consider shooting a deer in a real-life scenario at that same range.

I'm not trying to be preachy and we all have to do what we believe is the right thing but that's my two cents, for what it's worth.

 

[SSGN_Doc]

What these guys are saying is that they are tryingto fill in some of the things that may not be considered by a first time muzzleloader. Step back and take the words as offered advice to prevent someone from getting blind sided

I have been shooting sine I was 8 and I'm almost 41 now, I've spent 17 years in the military and shoot to hunt as well as in competition, so I'm not new to firearms, but I'm new to the traditional shooting forum.

Muzzleloaders do take more effort in set-up and familiarization. My Traditions was previously owned but I bought it with no load data. The woods I hunt in are thick, like machette thick. 50 yards would be a long shot for me to take in these woods. I spent some time at the range with an adjustible powder measure finding the load that grouped best and hit to POA at 50 yards. getting a hang fire or anticipating your shot and flinching, or not providing proper follow through on these guns can have a larger effect on shot placement than with modern centerfire guns. My front sight also had to be drifted. And I f I wasn't shooting to Point of Aim I may have had to file the front sight.

Once you find the right load, then you can be assured that the rifle is capable and go to the woods with confidence.

My chosen load: (the two off to the left were when I found my front sight had been knocked loose. I had to drift it and stake it at the range. The round that is slightly above the ragged hole is from me not following through properly on my shot and giving the rifle slight movement before it truely fired.)

I find nothing wrong with a desire to extend your season. I also wanted to extend mine, as well as broaden my shooting experience into a field of shooting I hadn't previously explored in any depth.

Try not to take any of the comments personal, and just understand that this branch of shooting has some dark litte secrets that nobody wants to see you or your game suffer for.

 

[mykeal]

obviously(hopefully?)NOBODY would go deer hunting with an unfamiliar rifle that they don't know how to shoot or where the bullets will land.

My word. It happens all the time. I volunteer as an RSO at our local sportsmen's club range during sight in days, and teach the muzzleloading section in Hunter Safety Education. EVERY YEAR we get people who literally show up with their new gun still in the plastic Wal-Mart bag wanting to "just sight it in with a few shots" the day before opening day. Believe me, it happens, and it happens a lot.

Dave wasn't saying that it takes a year of experience to get familiar enough with a gun to take it hunting. He just said don't buy one the week before season opens and expect to be fully competent with it. Maybe some people can, but my experience with the shooting public says that ain't common.